Podcast – Episode 0266 – Myers-Briggs Perceiving Function Idealism


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In this episode, Joel and Antonia talk about the idealism we develop around our perceiving cognitive functions.

In this podcast you’ll find:

  • In the last podcast, we discussed idealism with the four judging functions
  • Car Model
  • ENTP/ENFP share the same dominant perceiving function – Extraverted Intuition ‘Exploration’ Ne
  • Exploration = endless freedom
  • Always chasing a new shiny object
  • Hard to commit to anything
  • EPs want to keep their options open at all times
  • Purity without having to do any work to gain true mastery
  • ENFPs are better at pretending they are following the rules
  • ENTPs struggle with this because of their Ti – Introverted Thinking
  • ENFPs are good at pretending intimacy with people
  • They don’t like saying yes to things they may feel trapped by later
  • Ne wants to create impact in the world.
  • It wants to see if there is a better way.
  • You can’t create a new norm unless you disrupt what is already there and establish something else.
  • The polar opposite of Extraverted Intuition is Introverted Sensing ‘Memory’ – Si
  • Memory = reviewing memories to get impressions
  • The Ideal for Si is purity for all memories.
  • Many ISJs spend massive amounts of time on detailed creative hobbies that allow them to shut out the world and its many disruptions.
  • ENPs with an inferior Si can choose not to think about the things they don’t want to deal with. Like past trauma.
  • When memories start to come up for SJs they don’t have the choice just to push it away as NPs do.
  • Reviewing sensory experiences is a compulsion for SJs. To not do so causes depression.
  • So they hide or stick to reliable routines.
  • Tried and True vs. Hiding from the world
  • Ne compulsion is perpetually bouncing from one thing to the other
  • Ne requires a foundation to build upon
  • Si requires surrender to change
  • SJs do pattern recognition work, but it is slow because they have to repattern a whole memory
  • Extraverted Sensing ‘Sensation’ Se
  • The idealism for Se is an oversimplified version of everything
  • “There’s an obvious and simple solution for everything; why aren’t we doing it?”
  • Sometimes the obvious solution is the right one. Sometimes it isn’t.
  • Se sees no need to study systems or think of complexities.
  • The world is full of immediate, actionable solutions that everyone else is too obtuse to see.
  • Purity without the work
  • Everybody else is the idiot
  • This is why they are so good at reacting in real time
  • Ne never has to commit
  • Si never has to do anything out of its comfort zone
  • Se never has to figure out the complexity of things behind the curtain
  • “When you have a hammer all the world is a nail.”
  • There is a percentage of problems that people do overcomplicate – but not all of them.
  • ESPs are always in trouble because they try to simplify problems that require more complex answers.
  • Se is the polar opposite of Introverted Intuition ‘Perspectives’ Ni
  • Ni gets into other people’s perspectives
  • Se worries about what people think of them
  • As long as Se can get people on its side, it doesn’t have to think about managing their goodwill
  • Se needs to surrender to the idea that there is no such thing as a pure function.
  • They have to do the Work.
  • Se needs to remember that some problems are more complicated than they think.
  • As Se gets more seasoned and mature over time, it starts to recognize the law of diminishing returns on simple solutions.
  • Introverted Intuition ‘Perspectives’ Ni
  • The ability to shift perspectives and get into other people’s headspace
  • They also watch their own mind form patterns
  • Ni gets gummed up by sustainability
  • Ni can go so long term that they prevent new experiences from happening if it doesn’t look sustainable
  • Ni fantasy is the idea that reality can be lived internally before it happens.
  • You can have all the answers just by running a simulation
  • That sounds like a lot of work to other people, but it is the native language of INJs.
  • The work is being present and implementing real time.
  • Sjs hide away. NJs conceptualize.
  • INTJ who couldn’t stop talking because he was externalizing his inner dialogue at all times – and none of it made sense to anyone but him.
  • Stream of consciousness talk
  • If he could figure it all out, he could accomplish his dream to be a contributor – showing up in life and engaging.
  • Balance it out and engage with the hear and now.
  • Get away from purist thought and get into the work.
  • Don’t just run a simulation but look for the evidence in front of you, not just the patterns in your mind.
  • What is the sensory evidence? How do people see you?
  • INJs are all steak and no sizzle, but nobody comes to them for the steak because there’s no sizzle.
  • There’s no ability to interface with the world to bring complex solution to complex problems.
  • There’s no bridge.
  • They are just chasing rabbit trails internally.
  • They think the rabbit trails will equate to impact.
  • All four perceiving functions have this desire for excellent ROI without having to put in the work.
  • Work you need to do:
  • Integrate the other side of the polarity and recognize its influence
  • Attach your perceiving function to the other functions in your stack – especially functions of the opposite attitude (E/I)
  • Recognize you have to do the work. You can’t just exist and be amazing.
  • The antidote is the integration of the other side of your polarity.
  • Integration = understanding the importance of something and not pushing it away anymore
  • If an introverted function has you by the balls, integrate an extraverted function – either the polar opposite or the copilot.

In this episode, Joel and Antonia talk about the idealism we develop around our perceiving cognitive functions. #MBTI #myersbriggs

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Showing 30 comments
  • Joanna
    Reply

    From above:

    “INTJ who couldn’t stop talking because he was externalizing his inner dialogue at all times – and none of it made sense to anyone but him.
    Stream of consciousness talk
    If he could figure it all out, he could accomplish his dream to be a contributor – showing up in life and engaging.”

    Antonia, I cringed as I listened to you talk about this guy because this is exactly what I always imagine my friends are thinking about me. I am an INTP. Which means that we (he and I—not you and I, obviously) would share none of the same functions in our car model. But damn, the way you described this guy seemed eerily similar to myself.

    I guess I don’t really have a question. I’m just curious if there’s anything there—perhaps I’m mistyped (which I highly doubt), or he is mistyped (though I doubt that even more. I know it’s just this one little similarity, but I can’t help being curious. I’d investigate myself, but I know enough to know that if I want to finish this episode (and I do), I cannot allow myself anywhere near that rabbit hole right now!

  • Morten
    Reply

    I was thinking about the example of Se idealism gone wrong where the guy just does something without thinking of the consequences.

    First, it appears to me that when Se is immature or underdeveloped, is when you see the bad effects, like raving Se teenagers or people just doing something because it’s simple and actionable here and now. Immature Ni would equivalently be people who think about things but never get anything done (that actually sounds a lot like me as a teenager). Or another consequence could be to not get enough data in before analyzing the problem and finding solutions. I have a tendency to not wanting to spend enough time getting data, because I like so much better to think about possible ways of understanding the issue, different ways of solving the issue, and even understanding what the problem is. I’m very aware of the fact that I need to get more data, but it’s not very interesting.

    On the other hand I see people spending a lot of time getting and understanding the data, and then finding solutions that to me seem either overly simple or overly complicated because the method is too simple.

    Well, all this to just say that I appreciate that Ni and Se work together, and it’s more and more apparent to me that they work together. I really like working with data and fast gathering people, as long as I’m able to spend time on speculating. Some times it’s important to speculate before we can get facts and data.

  • Ammon
    Reply

    I had a thought about introverted intuition. The way it appears to me is that The ideal is that I can control the future, I will see what is going to happen and I can act accordingly now. Does this seem correct?

  • Hei
    Reply

    I also ordered you book while drunk in the middle of the night! Joke aside, I think this episode (and the previous one) was great in order to get a deeper insight to how the functions function. As I INFJ I really recognize this feeling of wanting to figure everything out. It is like I am building an inner map of reality (my understanding of it) that I am using in order to interact with it. I want to be able to fit everything into this complex map were I sort of can see how things are connected. Another fun thing was that I also can se the Se ideal showing up in me in stressed situations in this strong drive to find the simplest solution to problems ahead. I have been taking soo many bad “shortcuts” that just messes things up in those situations.

  • Erica
    Reply

    INFJ here and I couldn’t help smiling when you got to Ni, where you said for INJs, in particular, the simulation is the reality. It gets in the way of seeing what is actually happening in the present because you have a pre-conceived notion of what is happening or what is supposed to happen.

    What helped me a lot was to think my simulations are not 100% reality and so I have to learn to adjust real-time and then change the simulation based on whatever reality hands me. I guess the difficulty with this is that Ni doesn’t like having to adjust its perspective, but that is probably the kind of work that we have to do: to keep adjusting our perspective in the present and/or based on the present.

  • Tine Putzeys
    Reply

    The comment about the Ni user in the bar reminded me of one of the Black Mirror episodes, called Hang the DJ. I won’t spoil it for those who haven’t watched it, but it seems like the entire episode is about the Ni fantasy as you’ve explained it in this podcast.

  • Tine Putzeys
    Reply

    INTJ here. I also take in massive amounts of content (there’s no such thing as enough, only “battery dead” or “I need to sleep now”).

    However I don’t focus on fantasy, comics etc like the person in the example. I can literally be interesting in anything. I vividly remember spongeing up the info my mecanic date once told me about how a simple car engine works. Or when I’m interested in a guy that happens to play soccer, I will read up on the rules, tactics, history and current events in soccer. Why? I don’t really know. I just do.

    When not researching something specific, I gravitate toward psychology and studying behavior (including animal behavior).

  • Helen
    Reply

    As an Se user, I think the outside view that Se users are not deep thinkers and kinda ‘dumb’ is a misrepresentation of the function. For me, the response in the moment and simple solution is more a calculated response to the issue at hand. Does this particular situation need speedy solutions (Se) or a depth of thought (Fi/Ni)? At it’s best in emergency situations, you can see it’s true power. Moving a child out of a dangerous situation quickly or providing first aid in a health crisis etc. I believe it’s a more conscious decision than other types may realise. Is this worth the time to deeply process or is a quick response and simple solution beneficial now?

  • R
    Reply

    Steph. I would guess INJs would continue to study the present until they could find the answer (pattern). ISJs would continue to review the past in their mind until they could find the patterns. So, really, if an INJ wants to be able to future pace, they’ll have to get out of their head and into the world, to take in real-time sensory feedback. If an ISJ wants to feel certain about what may happen – they would go inward, to their memory bank and expect the past to repeat itself. So they are looking for the pattern of experience. Novel Ne experiences in the outer world would be used to shake up stored patterns and vet them. On the other hand, Se experiences for INJs should solidify the pattern – really, the pattern of patterns.

  • Lainey Bell
    Reply

    Hello!
    My name is Lainey and I am a 21 YO INTJ Women. Right now I am a soldier, and actually have about two months of service left at the army.
    In this comment I would like to tell my story as I think it is rather unique and maybe some would find it interesting and even insightfull.
    I was listening to the podcast (this and the previous one) and I found it fascinating how I got to tackle this problem of idealizing my driver function (perspectives – Ni) and co-pilot function (effectiveness – Te).
    I think that most people, me including would resist to tackling that problem, among many others, but in my case, I could never allow myself to fall into having idealized my driver function whlie in the army. Lack of action, and lack of interaction or lack fast reaction would be the death of someone. So at all times, there was a need of somewhat of a balance. I would not say that it was perfect, or even good, but it was good enough for the moment.
    Since then I had the time to straghten things up, and now I am in a good place.
    Even though I do think that the fact that I never got to the end of the pit might play against me one day, as I have no experience of getting out, but only the potential cockiness that might become an achilles heel of mine.

    • Alex
      Reply

      I do find your story interesting! I resonate with it because I feel that I was also “forced” to exercise balance– in my case, forced to use my co pilot of exploration rather than rest into the ideal comfort of my tertiary memory. (I moved around the country every 4 months to alternate between semesters of school and full time internships) I think I was fortunate to have had some “forced” growth in that sense, but boy was it hard and my memory fought back for all it was worth, inhibiting my full potential for growth and bringing up lots of crap. (But that’s the reason I found PH, so I guess that’s good 🙂 ).

      Anyhow, I will be transitioning into a new phase of my life that will NOT be forcing me to use exploration in the same way- it will be easy to stay “comfortable” after I graduate. I foresee that the challenge will be (and maybe you will experience this when you leave service) to maintain the balance when no external forces are requiring it. When you said “I don’t have experience getting out” it made me think about the fact that I really haven’t done serious exploration BY CHOICE very much- but because I’ve been forced to. I guess this isn’t specific necessarily to ideals, but could apply to many things.

      I think that the lesson I can take from my forced exploration experience is the fact that now I have experience finding out that it’s never as scary as I think it will be. So when I am left hanging and need to make choices on my own, I can remember that it’s worked before.

      I feel grateful that I had external support in balancing my functions, but in recognizing that, I have to acknowledge that it will require more conscious effort when that support is gone.

  • Karina G
    Reply

    Hi Joel and Antonia, first let me thank you for all the work you put in to your podcast and research. It’s paying off because you have helped me. I’m going to make this short and sweet. About 5 years ago i started having major life problems with my relationships. I was married and have 4 children. All of my experiences with my situation back then had come to a crashing halt. I was unhappy and could not make sense of it. My ESFJ husband could, he said we had grown apart. I agreed and still do. Over the last 5 years i have re-invented myself, maintained close relationships with those most important to me and found a new career. That is all good in my eyes. What has been bothering me is why? Why was i so unhappy and why did i drop a nuclear bomb on my ex when it was time to, well move on and grow? I have to know! Are you filtering me down yet? I had always thought i was an ESFJ. Well, I’m not; i have been mistyped twice as an ENFJ. I knew in my heart for the last 8 months that i was not an ESFJ nor an ENFJ. Fast forward to your emails, videos and podcasts. Well, i have found myself and with the help of the Ennegram test, I can proudly say without hesitation that i am an ENFP, Eneg: 2w3. Here’s the part that i think is so positive about your work. Your podcast discussions, explanations are so A+ concise that it hit home. Everything you talk about strikes a cord and nerve in me like no other. I am so happy right now that i want to send you a rainbow and multiple hugs. Keep all your research coming. There are so many lost people in the world and self awareness and self actualization is highly needed now. I can’t imagine my life without understanding myself. I was living such a delusion. The image never met up with the happiness. It was like all perception but an emptiness inside. Thank you, you are needed and appreciated by many in my humble opinion. 💖

    • Karina G
      Reply

      Adding that Personlity Hacker put me as an ENFP—I’m comfortable with that, it’s true! I have and will continue to recommend Personality Hacker as well as your Podcast to my friends and family.

  • Kris
    Reply

    [INTP] First of all, this site (in particular the podcast) has been a Godsend for myself and my marriage. I started listening in the midst of a terrible year (while searching for anything that could help), and it gave me a framework to better understand why I wasn’t having any luck communicating with my ISFP wife. A little over a year later and while we still have trouble relating to each other, it’s so much easier to attribute our “sideways moments” to our differences and not some character flaw in the other. I’m not exaggerating when I say your material saved/transformed our marriage!

    Anyways, I can definitely relate to the Ti desire to skip the inconsistent results of talking to get a point across and just “mind-meld”, as well as my Ne desire to always have flexibility, especially with my time and decisions (both of which has been the source of conflict over the years, see marriage troubles above). I also let out a laugh when the discussion came to the Se “act now!” tendency as I have to constantly remind my ISFP wife and ESFP daughter not to throw balls back and forth through the kitchen past countless breakable items!

    The most helpful, though, was the discussion on Si. It helped me to realize that while my wife and I have apologized to her sister for a botched family trip, the fact that she is likely an ISFJ means that while we can easily move on, she cannot. And our apology, though sincere, was not honoring of her and was likely received more as “get over it”.

    Thank you, and keep up the good work!

  • Ty
    Reply

    Oh God, the Ni idealism of “reality can be lived internally” struck a HUGE nerve with me.

    I just had a conversation with my boyfriend the other day that went like this,

    Him: So you got upset with X the other day, did you talk to her?
    Me: No, I just thought about it for awhile and I realized that X was probably feeling this and that and that’s why she behaved that way. And once I realized that, I really wasn’t upset anymore so I don’t see the point in talking to her about it.
    Him: Well you may feel better about it, but you’re not allowing her any say in the situation.
    Me: So? I already figured it out. It’s all good.
    Him: No! It’s not all good. You’re not giving her the chance to say her side, for you guys to ACTUALLY develop a relationship that she is a part of.
    Me: … But I already understand everything …
    Him: … But that’s not the point …

    And now it’s incredibly obvious that what he’s trying to point out is that I’m over-relying on Ni/Ti so I don’t have to do the work of ACTUALLY engaging via Fe. It feels good in the short term because I don’t have to do the awkward messy work of having a conversation and creating harmony WITH the other person’s input and involvement… But it is bad in the long term because people don’t actually feel close to me when I completely shut them out of my “relationship” with them.

    I needed to hear this today.

    • Antonia Dodge
      Reply

      I heard the video game “level up” chime in my head as I read this.

      -A-

    • Tine Putzeys
      Reply

      “But I already understand everything”. BINGO. This sounds akwardly familiar. I think I also needed to hear that. Say thanks to your boyfriend from me 🙂

  • Krista
    Reply

    Hi Joel and Antonia,

    I’ve learned a ton from your podcast and blog over the last several months, but this episode gave me an especially strong “aha” moment when you talked about the idealism of Perspectives (I’m an INFJ). I’m in the midst of trying to make a career change, and there are so many directions I could go with the type of work I want to do, so I’ve found myself taking in information and future pacing with it to the point that I’m not taking any action with what I’ve learned! I even write out the action steps that I should be taking, but I’ll continually put them off in favor of trying to get more clarity about the direction I should go. I’ll get really excited about an idea, but then “short-circuit” it by thinking it might not be sustainable for me in the long-run (I’m also a highly sensitive person, so I’m extremely protective of my energy). I’ve known that I’m prone to thinking this way, but now I can see how it’s keeping me from actually creating the life I love to envision.

    The way you talked about this idealism as a fantasy really helped me to wake up to how I’m sabotaging my own ambitions. I’d definitely be interested in any more advice, tips, or recommended podcast episodes on how people with a Perspectives driver can be less in their heads and better about getting into action. I’m sure you’ve talked about this in the episodes and articles I’ve already read, but I probably need to hear it again! Thank you for the work you do!

    • Krista
      Reply

      And please ignore that profile photo, that’s an unintentional side effect of using my personal email for my job haha.

  • Jessica Roberts
    Reply

    Hello Joel and Antonia,

    I first wanted to say thank you, you’ve helped me understand myself better as an INFJ. Your podcasts are very informative and helpful, and I also like the Making Peace With Your Parents podcast where Antonia tells her story. It feels like I can connect with you on a deeper level.

    I have a question that has been on my mind lately and that is if you have ever noticed a trend where certain types are more likely to be short-tempered than others?

    Just to give some context. I’ve always been conflict averse, and I don’t like showing my anger towards people because I know how it feels when someone directs their anger towards me. Growing up my mom appeared to be extraverted and she was very short-tempered, and I was often afraid of doing the wrong thing because I didn’t want to be yelled at. I don’t know her MBTI type because she passed away in my teenage years, however, my grandma has similarities to my mom and she is an ESFJ.

    In my life after high school I noticed a pattern of me making friends with woman who had strong and feisty personalities. Ones who were blunt and short-tempered, and if you offended them they were never afraid to get angry at you and speak their minds. Of course this dynamic was unhealthy for me because I would be afraid to stand up to them and would allow them to cross over my boundaries. It’s been quite a journey in learning how to speak up for myself and to set healthy boundaries but one that I needed.

    Now back to my question. All these woman were extraverted, however, I’m unsure if they were feelers or thinkers and that got me wondering if feelers or thinkers are more likely to be short-tempered? and would them being an extravert or introvert have anything to do with it? I realize that any personality type can get angry but I just wanted to know if you have noticed any sort of trend where certain types are more likely to be short-tempered?

    Take care,

    Jessica

  • Danielle
    Reply

    I had to chuckle at Antonia’s comment about how ENFPs are good at seeming like they’re connecting with people when maybe they are really not reaching the full extent of connection since that is exactly me. I almost always find it easy to get along with people on the surface, but I just can’t seem to figure out how to consciously make deep connections.

    Part of this could be the fact that my instinctual stack is sp/so. Really intimate relationships are a blind spot for me. The people I’ve become closest to over the years have either been people I’ve just been in close proximity with for a really long time or people who seemed very determined to get to know me.

    I’ve also been mistaken as flirting before when that was not part of my intentions at all. Flirting just feels really inauthentic for me to do intentionally. So, it’s never a strategy I utilize to establish something deeper. But apparantly, by being friendly and curious, that’s the vibe I’ve given off. So, when I’ve gotten feedback that this is how I’ve come off, part of me freezes up and panics. “Oh no, what do I do? I just unintentionally misrepresented myself. I just wanted to be nice. ” I don’t yet have an answer to this question. My instinct is to either metaphorically or literally flee the situation, which I recognize does no one any good.

    Unless something I really feel on a moral level, Ne makes it incredibly difficult for me to decide to support one side or the other in a debate or issue. I’ll often verbally float back and forth between the two. I have been told on more than one occasion to “just pick a side already,” to which my response was a smirk and a nope. I feel like this is one manifestation of Ne’s resistance to rules and authority in me personally. I often find that I don’t like any of the options the world seems to present me with, so my gut response is, “Okay then, I guess we’ve got to start from scratch and have a whole new option.”

    This is when my tertiary extroverted thinking sometimes pops in and has its moments of insight. If a solution or a plan doesn’t seem like it’s sustainable or feasible, I have this gut reaction of “Back to the drawing board everyone unless someone can provide me with clean, convincing data that this can be done.” For me, Te seems to work better when finding flaws in others’ ideas rather than my own.

    Although, sometimes I feel that I need to hold back on my Ne. In some environments, it’s probably wise not to spew Ne insights onto people. It’s sort of a reverse idealism in a way that tricks my brain into doubting whether Ne can find the necessary insights.

    I sometimes instinctively fear that if I use too much Ne, I’ll come across as completely wonky. A good example of how I feel I can come off is in the X-Files episode Bad Blood. So, this episode is more or less retelling the events of a case through Mulder’s and Scully’s individual perceptions and each present a very skewed, over exaggerated interpretation of the other. I’m fairly certain Mulder is an INFP, and Scully’s interpretation of him as this almost overenthusiastic puppy who has crazy ideas, impulsively runs off to follow them with little to know explanation, and is just completely unpredictable strikes me as exactly how Ne can come off. It’s not the episode that made me think this, I had this perception long before I saw the episode (which is one of the show’s best in my opinion).

    So, I then tend to hold back on Ne because I don’t want to seem like I’m completely nuts. But that’s really unhealthy, so I’ve begun to consciously not restrict my Ne to the point where I fall into the grips of Si. I think I used to do this quite frequently since I got negative feedback about how I came across as an NP when I was younger. I’ve brought up patterns that I’ve recognized that were met with open hostility. Maybe I needed to refine them more, but I have often found that I was onto something in the prematurely expressed pattern. One example is that as a teenager I started to notice there were two different definitions of racism floating around, and conflict starts when people can’t either recognize or accept the difference. I pointed this out online, and was literally told to go kill myself by drinking bleach. Now I have a more educated, mature recognition of the distinction because I’ve spent more time figuring out what the pattern is by exposing myself to the information and conversations in real time. So, now I can explain the difference’s nature and how it causes disputes with depth and nuance instead of just saying, “Hey, there’s a problem in our society where people have these two definitions of a concept and we need to have this understanding when problem solving.” I won’t go to deeply into it, but I’ve found that the simple basis my gut observation was an extremely good connection through further exploration.

    Just thought this was an interesting personal evaluation of how this concept could seem to be reversed in some way. Maybe it’s an odd way of thinking about it, but that’s how it strikes me.

    I also find that Ne’s tendency to continuously fish for new information and experiences has also been seen in a very negative light. In the past, I’ve been met with hostility after I very calmly asked someone as to why they thought something without contradicting them or devaluing their opinion. Albeit, I tend to ask again when given some variation “That’s just the way it is.” Usually, in those situations I get the sense that an individual who responds with hostility to this sort of conversation usually has not properly thought their belief through and/or has not properly given enough thought to how they should express their viewpoint.

    The thing I really want to work on with Ne is how I can better express the patterns I make in real time. I find it can often be extremely had to communicate in a palatable fashion.

    • Leah
      Reply

      Your comments are spot on for me (fellow enfp)!

      In particular, the dampening down of Ne to stop looking crazy !

      I am in a great position at work at the moment in that I am relatively junior but have the ear of a network of people who want to see organisational change. The main issue that drives me is the disparities that I am feed from middle management – eg shut down comments like ‘the rules don’t allow this” when there are always shades of grey in any situation. I am now wanting to understand how to articulate my theories without causing the receivers to shut down. I have undertaken a couple of courses (at work and online) that delves into how to influence others. This has been helping in verbal communication. I find I am excellent at articulating my ideas in emails, PowerPoint presentations and reports, so I try to use these modalities more. If I am physically meeting with someone, I have found that if I put a project on a page and present it to the other person to ponder before I launch into my eager puppy conversation, it helps move things along 🙂

  • Drew
    Reply

    [INFJ woman] I was absolutely FLOORED by Antonia’s story about her INTJ friend, because I’m very similar in the absolutely massive amounts of information I take in. However, I wonder if the difference in the Ni-Te and Ni-Fe stacking point to the small differences here. While it seems the INTJ was mostly interested in fantasy, comics, etc., I find I take in a ton of nonfiction, sociology, news, and such.

    This could easily point to the Ni-Fi and Ni-Ti loops, because I feel like if I just have enough information I can solve It, whatever “It” is. I’ve found that the best way to overcome this is to use my Fe strength to facilitate complex conversation. I absolutely thrive in group therapy and philosophy/theology discussions, and have previously acted as a mediator in a variety of situations, using my Fe-Ti polarity to bridge communication gaps.

    It would be cool if any other Fe users could share their experiences! These are some serious growth spaces for me, and I’d love to know how to put myself in conducive environments 🙂

    • Antonia Dodge
      Reply

      To be clear, he wasn’t saying he didn’t take in massive amounts of information, but that he could only collate so much at the same time. I’m sure he takes in TONS of info. He just can’t keep track of it all in the same moment, so needs context and linear thinking to work through it.

      -A-

      • Drew
        Reply

        I hear ya! Either way I was fascinated to hear about another Ni dom who seems to consume content as a sort of compulsion. It would probably do us a lot of good to set limits on that indulgence so we can exercise our auxiliaries.

  • Kim Kessler
    Reply

    Oh man, this one hit me in the guts. As an ENFJ I’ve been working really hard to develop my copilot Ni but listening to this makes me wonder if I’ve went too far 🙂 It’s far too easy for me to run simulations and make internal connections but not step into the work: being in the present and engaging with the here and now, UNLESS it feels harmonious and physically appealing of course (Driver/10 yr old Loop Gone Wild).
    But I know I am called to do deep creative work and produce stories that change the world, and yet I struggle with getting real traction because I keep running the scenarios instead of taking action. I am afraid of imperfection, afraid to waste any more time…and yet by not taking action I am ABSOLUTELY wasting time. Sigh.
    How do we grow our copilot but not get stuck there? How do we integrate our healthy polarities to truly be all we are meant to be? My heart aches to be that person. I can see it (Ni joke) but it feels so far away.
    So amazingly grateful for the work you do, Joel and Antonia.

  • Steph Guthridge
    Reply

    Hi, I have a question about the difference between ISJs and INJs. I understood that one of the differences in the way that ISJs and INJs hide is that ISJs do so in order to avoid having to deal with bad memories and INJs do so because they are already certain about how something is going to work out – so they don’t need to go through the experience. I’m wondering how it works for INJs when they do not feel that they have enough information to future pace accurately?

    I identify with INFJ more so than ISFJ, especially when it comes to meeting people – I can get to 10, 20 years down the line very easily and feel like I know what the problems may be, and I’m usually right about it. I also relate a lot to being able to see things easily from another person’s perspective. But, there are other situations, with my new business for example, where I feel like I do not always have enough information to future pace accurately. My go-to in those situations is to hold off making any moves until we have gathered enough information to make an informed, ethical decision, because I do not want for myself or my business to be responsible for having caused negative long-term impact. That seems similar to how ISJs may hold off taking part in new experiences because they are unsure of how it will turn out and do not want to process bad memories…. so, I am wondering how the two functions (Introverted Intuition and Introverted Sensing) are different in those situations – where there isn’t enough information for accurate future pacing?

    • Drew
      Reply

      Hey Steph! In my experience, Ni works more as a vetting process with a backlog of information to help sift through what’s happening in real time within the Ni-Se polarity. I think it’s trying to create meaning and draw conclusions from the presented information.

      Si, meanwhile, has more to do with comfort. I think of it as the voice in your head at the restaurant going “Ehhh…I could try the salmon, but the chicken marsala is just SO GOOD.”

      • Steph
        Reply

        Hey Drew, thanks for the examples. But I was more wondering what happens with INFJs when, going through their information, they aren’t able to accurately draw conclusions.

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