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In this episode Joel and Antonia talk about using psychedelics as tools for personal growth.

In this podcast you’ll find:

  • Riff Tracks – Reefer Madness
  • Marijuana and Cannabis have been the butt of a lot of misinformation.
  • Drugs are like anything that can have painful consequences in the wrong hands.
  • We would like to have a conversation in an attempt to shift some perspectives on this topic.
  • The opiate epidemic is ruining lives. These are not banned drugs. Doctors prescribe these opiates and people are abusing them.
  • Any time you take a substance into your body, there is a risk of abuse. Whether it is tobacco, alcohol, or an opioid.
  • The United States categorizes drugs as legal and illegal.
  • We want to talk about substances that we can use as tools for personal growth and behavior change.
  • When you open yourself up to tools that can alter your mind or body, you should be cautious.
  • Seek help if you are abusing a substance.
  • We shouldn’t fight drug use by criminalizing it.
  • There is a handful of psychotropics that have interesting results.
  • Timothy Leary – a proponent of LSD – “You have to have the right set and setting or you will have a useless experience.”
    • Set is mindset. How are you going into it? How have you prepared your mind and body?
    • Setting is your environment. Context. The people around you.
  • What you can do with LSD you can also do with meditation. But the difference is you can walk across the US, or you can fly in a jet plane.
  • Meditation will get you there, but it takes longer.
  • LSD should be used for personal growth. Not a party drug. If someone has a bad experience, what were their set and setting?
  • LSD removes the filters that define our worldview. Sensory filters that stabilize the world. Like sight.
  • Saccadic masking – blindness our brain covers over.
  • Trip indicates you are going someplace. You can bring back souvenirs from trips.
  • A lot of intention and time goes into a trip.
  • Detoxify from toxic food. Journal. Meditate. Get your mind into the right space.
  • Don’t take this experience lightly.
  • Studies have indicated that LSD can be very helpful for people dealing with PTSD.
  • It is irresponsible not to use it in medical research.
  • Hollywood and religion don’t often depict substance accurately.
  • Have respect for substance, but don’t fear it.
  • Anything that grows from the ground should not be feared.
  • Gateway drugs are gateway drugs because of the people that demonize everything.
  • So, when a kid tries something tame and realizes they were lied to about its harmful effects, they move onto more harmful substances assuming they were lied to about them too.
  • 25 or older. The brain doesn’t stop forming until 25. So, if these substances were legalized there should still be age limits.
  • LSD in the U.S. is considered Schedule 1 – which means it is of no value, including in medical research.
  • That designation should be reassessed.
  • Most people can’t have a mature conversation around this.
  • Some gifts can be given to you if you use these psychotropics responsibly.
  • MDMA – the chemical found in ecstasy – Dumps serotonin and dopamine into the system.
  • Souvenir – Massive compassion for human race.
  • Psilocybin mushroom souvenir – everything around us is just pure energy. We tell stories about everything we do.
  • Releasing attachment to the mundane.
  • Lose a sense of all the narratives you tell and get a sense of your life and everything that happens on a DNA level.
  • You continue the script from previous generations and pass it on to future generations.
  • If you want to experiment with these things, make sure you have the right set and setting. Take special care with anything that can be addictive.
  • MDMA requires caution. When it dumps the serotonin and dopamine into the system, there is a limited number of times you can do that before you burn out the receptors in your brain.
  • We aren’t advocating drugs, but we want to open up a conversation about it.
  • Talk openly about these things and consider that the stories we believe may not be true.
  • We can’t encourage you to do something illegal. At least we can start using these things in medical research.
  • Cannabis is considered Schedule 1 and its medical benefits are widely known.
  • We are advocating open dialogue.
  • We are advocating profound experiences.
  • There are ways to have these peak experiences that don’t mean illegal substances – ayahuasca is not illegal if it’s used religiously.
  • DMT is Schedule 1.
    • Look up Spirit Molecule on Youtube
  • DMT is found in everything, not just plants.
  • Right before we die, our brain prepares for death by dumping DMT into our system. So, near death experiences when people see God or see the light is really a DMT trip. Many die in a hospital where they are anesthetized and deprived of this important near death trip.
  • Apparently, nature thinks DMT has some medical use.
  • We should re-evaluate whether these things have some medical merit.
  • Be open to talking about things. Why should we avoid subjects just because we always have?
  • Make wise decisions for yourself.
  • Consider different technologies.
  • See things from different perspectives.
  • A lot of ego transcendence work can be facilitated by occasional use of psychotropics.
  • You can get emotionally and psychologically addicted to these drugs. So care and responsibility must be taken.
  • Don’t act like these substances are no big deal. But there’s no reason to fear them.

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25 comments

  • Maria
    • Maria
    • February 8, 2017 at 8:30 pm

    INTJ – As a therapist and a strong advocate of Maps (Multidisciplinary Association For Psychedelic Studies) I was delighted that you guys have raised this conversation!!

    Not only are some of the substances mentioned incredibly useful for personal development, when used responsibly in the right setting they can also potentially save the lives of people who have undergone trauma and are suffering from treatment resistant PTSD (MDMA Assisted Psychotherapy), or who are suffering from debilitating addictions(Psilocybin treatment), as is being demonstrated in clinical trials in the US and in Europe. Neither MDMA or Psilocybin are addictive (unlike alcohol and nicotine) and yet these substances are illegal, despite (as in the case of MDMA) substantial data in regard to their effectiveness in treating life threatening conditions. Its totally crazy!

    Bravo to you guys for being brave enough to bring up this delicate subject and help
    raise awareness : )

  • bjm
    • bjm
    • February 8, 2017 at 5:16 pm

    INFP in general agreement.

    We might say ALL things, substances, actions, relationships, thoughts etc. have a duality or polarity to them (at least in the human experiential realm): positive/negative, pleasure/pain, ecstasy/terror, freedom/addiction. Society and culture with its (particular) conventions and traditions also has polar dividing lines: this substance/behavior is okay (alcohol, cigarettes), that substance/behavior is not (marijuana, LSD, shrooms, MDMA), and the not-okay ones get symbolized/stigmatized as dark, deadly, and playing with the devil (“devil weed”) — and you will be ostracized by being put in prison.

    At the same time, in the explicit, rational, analytical US/West we seem more afraid of the hidden, messy, organic, deep, dark, nonrational “magical” realms of experience and mind. Of course many “primitive” tribes honor and explore those realms through set/setting/facilitation of ritual, initiation, shamanic knowledge, “spirit medicine”. We seem to have lost that or dissociated from this aspect of the human experience in the West while labeling it as primitive, unimportant, terrifying, or a threat to society.

  • KD
    • KD
    • February 8, 2017 at 2:27 pm

    Using ecstasy in my 20’s/30’s changed my life for the better in so many ways. It might not be for everyone, but I have no regrets.

    I was able to open myself up with people and express things I could not before. Sharing this with my friends at the time bonded us together. That closeness was not limited to the club, it was pervasive in all of our actions. It’s hard to describe.

    Using MDMA was an extremely positive influence in my life. I would do it again if I could get my hands on it.

  • Joel Mark Witt
    • Joel Mark Witt
    • February 7, 2017 at 6:22 pm

    Thanks Maddie for joining the conversation around this. I think Graves 6 / Spiral Dynamics Green is one of the best places to discover this for yourself.

  • Joel Mark Witt
    • Joel Mark Witt
    • February 4, 2017 at 4:47 pm

    Jeff. Appreciate your perspective into Leary’s ideas around this. I wish I had the chance to meet and talk with him. I think he was WAY ahead of his time. He’s becoming more relevant as time moves on IMO.

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