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In this episode, Joel and Antonia talk about which Myers-Briggs cognitive function is more selfish “Harmony” (Extraverted Feeling) or “Authenticity” (Introverted Feeling).
In this podcast you’ll find:
- Joel defines selfishness as taking more than you should.
- Antonia defines selfishness as making sure you get yours first.
- Extraverted Feeling “Harmony” Fe – All FJs and TPs
- Introverted Feeling “Authenticity” Fi – All FPs and TJs
- Fi is selfish for the individual.
- Fe is selfish for the collective.
- Fe may define selfishness as individuating away from the collective.
- Fi thinks it’s selfish to make everyone assimilate.
- Fe finds it rewarding when someone gets their needs met.
- Fe also takes a hit if someone isn’t getting their needs met.
- Fe uses other people’s emotions to calibrate if everyone’s needs have been met sufficiently.
- To a Fe user, Fi does feel selfish because they are taking more energetic resource than they are allowed.
- Why is it okay to sacrifice inner turmoil over group turmoil?
- Fe allows everybody to have a bad day as long as everyone agrees that they take turns.
- Fi sometimes forgets that other people have struggles too and need a turn in the bitch fest.
- Fi sometimes wants everybody else to focus on their problems and solve them.
- Fe can be a sickly sweet commandant who condescends to others and forces them to do things their way.
- Fi can’t understand why anyone would suppress who they are for the group’s benefit.
- Fe sacrifices themselves every day for the group’s benefit.
- Fe creates a system where everybody gets their time/day to be special. And the rest of us acknowledge when it is our day and when it is not.
- Fi doesn’t understand why they need to assimilate for the benefit of everyone.
- We all have to take the hit on occasion.
- Fe does more emotional labor than the other types, so they notice when things are imbalanced.
- Sometimes we project selfishness on to people who have permitted themselves to do what we haven’t. So, it’s a sort of envy.
- Fe: “I wish I had permission to take for myself.”
- Fe can learn from Fi that they need to acknowledge their needs freely.
- Individuals matter, and they need to acknowledge their needs eventually.
- Fe users can become passive-aggressive, angry, and resentful against the people around them who seem to take, take, take.
- What Fe fails to realize is they are the ones who created the situation.
- It becomes a false virtue for Fe users to sacrifice to others while hiding feelings of anger and resentment.
- Resentment’s root is in envy.
- Fe hates feeling negative emotions about others, so instead of stacking resentment maybe they can learn from the actions of the Fi user.
- “They’re giving themselves permission to have those feelings and be disruptive, and I need to give myself the permission to do the same thing on occasion.”
- Less mature Fe wants us all to buy into the same reality.
- Fe teaches us that even if we can’t find compassion for ourselves, we can still be compassionate to others.
- Fi can feel emotionally cavalier to Fe because Fi assumes everybody can deal with their emotional experience.
- Fe is more gentle with people’s emotions, but they tend to overdo the nurturing and over-protecting.
- Over-protecting is selfish of Fe because they are protecting themselves from having to see someone else in pain.
- Our egos are the manifestation of selfishness.
- So, our way is always going to appear better to us than someone else’s way.
- Selfishness is not the product of a cognitive function.
- Selfishness is the product of the individual.
- All of us are selfish.
- We have thrived as a species because we are selfish and have a will to live and dominate.
- We accuse each other of selfishness but rarely admit it to ourselves.
- Fe has its finger on the pulse of how serving the group helps serve self.
- The more seasoned Fe gets, the more it will bring in Ti and need less input from others.
- It’s common for younger Fe users to conflate harmony with agreement.
- When Fe is caught up in something symbiotic, it wants to share it.
- Fi has to get good at knowing the sweet spot.
- “Most of me is on board, so it’s good.”
- Fe assumes everyone is going to be on board.
- Fe feels good when everybody is experiencing the same emotion.
- Fi wants to make sure it won’t regret doing something that runs contrary to its values.
- Project positive intent on others.
- Fi can learn from Fe and vice versa.
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50 comments
Hey Antonia & Joel,
Thank you for all the many many things you’ve taught me over the past few months. Wow! This is so deeply intuitive! I never understood myself and others as well as I do now and I’m continually finding new exciting ways to help more people in my life with this new treasure trove of knowledge.
This all fascinates me so much, including your incredible vocabulary which makes me stop dead in my tracks to check out that new “word of the day”.
Of course, it’s not until something disturbs me that I need to speak up. And since your logical reasoning is usually so sound, I know it will be taken well.
Episode 0298 – “Which Is More Selfish – Harmony or Authenticity?” podcast bothered me so much that I woke up this morning still thinking about it and I cannot hold back my need to share my thoughts with you to consider.
I feel the true definition of selfish vs selfless wasn’t properly identified.
Your logic is usually “dead on” and this was so “off the mark” for me, my 3 year old Ti is having a major tantrum!!!
(Once again, Thank you for helping me to understand that! – LOL)
Simply put, and wouldn’t you agree:
Being selfLESS isn’t simply insisting on your piece of the pizza; rather, that is more a description of “insisting on being fairly treated”. Of course, you guys will have a much better word for that.
SelfLESSness is more about being very willing to offer up your very own piece for the harmony of the group or even for the harmony of the one Fi. And also making sure everyone else gets their fair share too.
So, not being an Fi, I wonder how the Fi would feel about “giving up their piece” for the good of others or even just 1.
I suspect not, but to what degree? Is there a degree?
What if it was a hungry child?
Obviously all of this is metaphorical.
In contrast, I know that
- an ENFJ considers the harmony of any 1 person, even out of 100 people – like in a “congregation” of people.
- Also, “harmony”, until it learns its healthy boundaries, will try endlessly, giving up what is theirs to make that solitary person happy (…but, as I’ve learned is often actually better off leaving them alone, since autonomy may be what the Fi may truly desire, but can’t communicate, because they think they’ll hurt your feelings, unbeknownst to an immature Fe).
I have one, probably very depressed, but very dear, Fi friend that seems very selfish to me in so many ways, but not in others. I still can’t quite figure it out.
I truly wonder what she would be like as a more healthy version of an Fi. (….Yes, I know, I need to research more podcasts)
Again, thanks for helping me understand the most misunderstood personalities. I never could’ve guessed what so many are truly feeling from my own limited perspective. I’ve been searching for answers for such a long time and I’m finally finding such valuable insight from your podcasts. They’re so Incredibly fascinating!
Thank you for all you do. I’m so enlightened but I also wonder if I will ever be able to turn off the “type-talk” and seem normal to other people ever again. This is such an addiction!
I’m looking forward to reading every one of these other replies. Thanks everyone and I apologize if someone has already addressed my point. I’ll check them all out later today.
Thanks,
“CareBear”
I don’t think it’s about your needs at such a general level though as you seem to be implying – just we don’t focus on how other people are feeling as much and notice how we are feeling more. I’m an ENFP and I’m TERRIBLE at looking after myself, and most people of my type (and ENTPs as well) are the same I’ve noticed). I know we only have Fi as our secondary function but still. It’s more about checking in with yourself that you are being genuine and are your emotions matching up with your life goals than anything. Obviously I can’t speak for IPs through wh have Fi first – maybe it’s a different feeling when it’s your first function.
When people talk about Fi being selfish, I think about that metaphor of putting on your own oxygen mask first in the event of a plane crash. We always have to think about our individual needs first. I’m no use to myself or the group if I die of starvation because I want everyone else to eat first. On a basic biological level, we have to look out for number one.
As an INFP, I’ve noticed that my Fi is balanced by my Te. I make space for Te in my beliefs, and even though I’m not personally good at or interested in setting up systems or organizing things, I feel a general sense of appreciation for the necessity of that function. I don’t usually feel critical about a particular system or method unless I think that the values behind it are wrong.
I’ve noticed this play out in politics. I’m quite willing to let go of how something is accomplished as long as I think the intentions and values behind it are good. That’s why I’m comfortable with a wide variety of approaches to political and social problems. UNLESS I think that the intentions of the people putting forth a particular solution are bad, or the values behind an approach are bad/harmful. That’s when I get upset.
I’ve noticed that this may conflict with some Ti users who might believe that their particular internally derived solution to a problem is the correct one, and they can be inflexible toward other approaches. I sometimes think, there are other perfectly valid ways of approaching that problem that may differ from yours, so I wish you’d be more flexible about letting go of your particular method if a majority of people see it differently. I may even have the same values as that Ti person, but when I see them being dismissive of a different approach to a large social/political problem, I might think that they’re being selfish.
Basically I’m saying this is not just about feeling functions—thinking functions are subject to the same concerns.
INFP here! A very interesting podcast and it’s great to read about different points of view.
I do understand the point of view of how an insistent Fi can be seen as selfish. I have to say tho, the INFP girl in your story sounds extremely selfish but I do think it’s a personality thing too.
As an INFP, we are very “feeling-single-object-focused” (if that’s a thing) which can actually mean we can strongly focus on another person’s feelings too without realizing and therefore it actually means we can be extremely selfless.
I think an INFP that has been exploited for their “selflessness” learned they actively have to do their best of keeping their own interest and needs to be met, and this requires more effort and energy than probably any other type. I guess from the outside it can be captured as “being selfish” but this is actually our way to keep a healthy balanced behavior.
In addition, I think INFP is so sensitive they would never dismiss other people because they think their needs worth more. It’s more of an unseen battle to keep our needs relevant in the discussion too because we are so easily being dismissed.
Keep the great work!
Honestly, as a TP, I find I admire Fi users’ willingness to defend their own individual values that differs from what Fe users enjoy, mostly because personally, I can actually relate to seeing unhealthy Fe as frustrating. Though even with lower Fe, I honestly am still influenced by it and wish it wouldn’t prevent me from some kind of inner critic at the back of my head telling me to do what I find not personally logical. I’ve talked with many Fi users before, and honestly even if we have a different introverted judging function, they’re just so good with making space for some of my emotions when lower and more unhealthy Fe in caring what others think so much that it honestly helps me work things out better with my Fe.
Though, I can see how Fi can be rather selfish in a less mature form, even from my own standpoint as a TP. They have their own prioritized values, but that doesn’t mean those values are over beyond other equal values. They may value helping the environment for one, but they do so that they make fun of those dedicated to other causes for not focusing on the environment as much. Think the vegan who is annoyed with non-vegans, who I don’t know, are focused on helping the sick with medical research or the person volunteering to help talk through people in suicide hotlines. I mean, aren’t those equal causes to work for? Can’t we just all be happy that we’re all doing something for society?
I mean, I don’t usually use my Fe directly. Usually I think of a logical solution (Ti) that would work for the greater good (Fe). I mean logically, on an economics standpoint, specialization in doing what we’re best at does a lot for society, doesn’t it? If we all focused on a little of everything instead of what we enjoy, doesn’t that really screw up society? I usually notice that when I use my Fe, it’s different from how many FJs use their Fe. I often use Fe indirectly by finding the logical long term negative consequences of the possibilities of what bad can happen with Ne, but I find many FJs are angry about it because I’m disagreeing. Come on, I’m just worried about all of you seriously. A friend’s in a relationship with red flag signs of abuse? “Buddy, my Ti can tell that he’s bullshitting you, man. Please think about it.” No. “Doesn’t this news article you saw on Facebook telling you to vote have a lot of logical fallacies and major signs of manipulation on it?” “Oh shut up.”
Wish me luck on developing Fe then.