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In this episode, Joel and Antonia talk about which Myers-Briggs cognitive function is more selfish “Harmony” (Extraverted Feeling) or “Authenticity” (Introverted Feeling).
In this podcast you’ll find:
- Joel defines selfishness as taking more than you should.
- Antonia defines selfishness as making sure you get yours first.
- Extraverted Feeling “Harmony” Fe – All FJs and TPs
- Introverted Feeling “Authenticity” Fi – All FPs and TJs
- Fi is selfish for the individual.
- Fe is selfish for the collective.
- Fe may define selfishness as individuating away from the collective.
- Fi thinks it’s selfish to make everyone assimilate.
- Fe finds it rewarding when someone gets their needs met.
- Fe also takes a hit if someone isn’t getting their needs met.
- Fe uses other people’s emotions to calibrate if everyone’s needs have been met sufficiently.
- To a Fe user, Fi does feel selfish because they are taking more energetic resource than they are allowed.
- Why is it okay to sacrifice inner turmoil over group turmoil?
- Fe allows everybody to have a bad day as long as everyone agrees that they take turns.
- Fi sometimes forgets that other people have struggles too and need a turn in the bitch fest.
- Fi sometimes wants everybody else to focus on their problems and solve them.
- Fe can be a sickly sweet commandant who condescends to others and forces them to do things their way.
- Fi can’t understand why anyone would suppress who they are for the group’s benefit.
- Fe sacrifices themselves every day for the group’s benefit.
- Fe creates a system where everybody gets their time/day to be special. And the rest of us acknowledge when it is our day and when it is not.
- Fi doesn’t understand why they need to assimilate for the benefit of everyone.
- We all have to take the hit on occasion.
- Fe does more emotional labor than the other types, so they notice when things are imbalanced.
- Sometimes we project selfishness on to people who have permitted themselves to do what we haven’t. So, it’s a sort of envy.
- Fe: “I wish I had permission to take for myself.”
- Fe can learn from Fi that they need to acknowledge their needs freely.
- Individuals matter, and they need to acknowledge their needs eventually.
- Fe users can become passive-aggressive, angry, and resentful against the people around them who seem to take, take, take.
- What Fe fails to realize is they are the ones who created the situation.
- It becomes a false virtue for Fe users to sacrifice to others while hiding feelings of anger and resentment.
- Resentment’s root is in envy.
- Fe hates feeling negative emotions about others, so instead of stacking resentment maybe they can learn from the actions of the Fi user.
- “They’re giving themselves permission to have those feelings and be disruptive, and I need to give myself the permission to do the same thing on occasion.”
- Less mature Fe wants us all to buy into the same reality.
- Fe teaches us that even if we can’t find compassion for ourselves, we can still be compassionate to others.
- Fi can feel emotionally cavalier to Fe because Fi assumes everybody can deal with their emotional experience.
- Fe is more gentle with people’s emotions, but they tend to overdo the nurturing and over-protecting.
- Over-protecting is selfish of Fe because they are protecting themselves from having to see someone else in pain.
- Our egos are the manifestation of selfishness.
- So, our way is always going to appear better to us than someone else’s way.
- Selfishness is not the product of a cognitive function.
- Selfishness is the product of the individual.
- All of us are selfish.
- We have thrived as a species because we are selfish and have a will to live and dominate.
- We accuse each other of selfishness but rarely admit it to ourselves.
- Fe has its finger on the pulse of how serving the group helps serve self.
- The more seasoned Fe gets, the more it will bring in Ti and need less input from others.
- It’s common for younger Fe users to conflate harmony with agreement.
- When Fe is caught up in something symbiotic, it wants to share it.
- Fi has to get good at knowing the sweet spot.
- “Most of me is on board, so it’s good.”
- Fe assumes everyone is going to be on board.
- Fe feels good when everybody is experiencing the same emotion.
- Fi wants to make sure it won’t regret doing something that runs contrary to its values.
- Project positive intent on others.
- Fi can learn from Fe and vice versa.
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50 comments
I loved the exploration here but I was disappointed that for much of the conversation, Fe was boiled down to trying to persuade or convince people to adopt your point of view. In many of your other discussions about Harmony, it’s been described as wanting to get other peoples’ individual needs met to harmonise the group dynamic. I think there’s a distinction between the two, and that instead of Fe being ‘selfish’ because it wants people to adopt its point of view, Fe is selfish because it wants social situations to be harmonious which is both socially and personally advantageous.
What if you broke the single word into two parts:
Selfish – a natural state of desire to take care of one self
Self-Centered – only considering yourself and not others.
This division could make it easier to have the discussion you had. There were times when Joel would qualify his use of the word Selfish with “self-focused” (and probably others) … there was a moment where Antonia basically said all of us are selfish.
Hey guys! I want to respectfully disagree with your definition of selfishness in regards to Fe vs Fi. I am an INFP and I do feel like I am more selfish than my Fe friends. When I compare myself to my ESFJ roommate she is definitely more people-centric than me. When I have free time I use it for myself. I watch what I want to watch, do activities that I like, and just do my own thing. When my ESFJ roommate has free time she plays words with friends, Facebooks people, and video chats others. Her free time is all about people, people, people. When my free time is me, me, me lol. She is much more others focused than I am.
But I think the selfishness you guys described (taking the pizza) is how Fe people accuse Fi types of acting online, but I think it is unfair to say that only FP types are obnoxious and an emotional drain. I know plenty of FJs that will bull dose the conversation, want to go out to eat where they want to, and they definitely can be dramatic if they dont get their way.
I think Fe types act like they were perfectly well behaved with each other AND THEN and ENFP showed up like a tornado and all is ruined. lol
It’s like they always bring up THAT ONE TIME I invited an ESFP to the party…..gasped…life ruined forever!!!!! lol
When I know an ISFJ that pouts and whines when she doesnt get her way. I know an ENFJ that will change restaurant plans when the whole group already decided elsewhere. And I know and ESFJ that will talk and talk and won’t let anyone get a word in edge wise (there is no ok, now it is your turn to talk).
Anyways, I do think yes, FP types care about themselves before others, I recognize this in myself. But FJ types are just as likely to act out in the bad ways you mentioned in this podcast. I think this is why Fi types get so triggered online. Because the selfishness described is hypocritical. When the true difference is FJs put more TIME into people. (At least that is my two cents on the matter).
What really resonated with me in this episode is how Fe can present itself as trying to force one’s opinions on others in order to achieve harmony (which could be viewed as authentic) while Fi can present itself as a stronger acceptance of individuality or even pushing the idea of “agree to disagree” (which could be viewed as harmonious). This was part of a struggle for me in determining if loved ones and I primarily used Harmony or Authenticity. My mother is an ENFJ and I’m an ISTJ. While she’s incredibly friendly, bubbly, warm and fuzzy, we’ve struggled to understand how her opinionated mindset fits with her Fe dominant function. She has trouble accepting if others don’t agree with her strong opinions. On the other hand, I grow incredibly uncomfortable when there isn’t harmony, but it comes from a place of not wanting anyone’s opinions or emotions to feel discredited. I’ll often find myself saying or thinking “we’re just not going to agree on that, and why isn’t that okay?”. So in a sense I feel like with my Fi I can be promoting a more harmonious nature while my mother’s Fe can create more discord, which has been confusing. Hearing this episode with both the Fe and Fi perspective was very interesting.
That was the point of the discussion – the elements of both functions that can be viewed and experienced as selfish by others. As a fellow Fe user, it’s important for us to remember that many of the things we promote and orchestrate are easy to be rationalized as selfless and in behalf of others, but they ultimately reflect our personal beliefs on how life should be which which others may strongly disagree. Fe isn’t always experienced by others as selfless.
A