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In this episode Joel and Antonia tell their stories of how they navigated their career life.
In this podcast you’ll find:
We live in a different world now. Our parents/grandparents typically worked in the same career all their lives and retired from that same career in their 60s.
Many Gen Xers and Millennials are finding themselves shifting between careers.
The Internet has enabled us to expand our entrepreneurial options.
The unstable economy keeps us shifting careers as jobs change or cease to exist.
The traditional way of earning money is shifting.
Antonia’s Story:
- Raised in an extremely religious environment that discouraged college. She was encouraged to volunteer her time toward a ministry that had zero financial reciprocation.
- She had to subsidize her full-time ministry job with a part time job.
- Her goal was to make the most money in the least amount of time.
- Went to a trade school to learn radiology. It was a means to an end.
- She dropped college in preference for what she believed was a higher priority – ministry.
- She did a bunch of random part-time jobs to support herself. Temp work.
- Learned a lot in the ministry: the art of persuasion, public speaking, sharing unpopular messages, living counter-culture, etc.
- Her family never encouraged her to think in terms of a career.
- When she left the religion, it occurred to her that she could finally have a career. She could focus on generating money.
- So she started attending seminars and events for self-education.
- Moved from Alaska to Las Vegas to live in an internet marketing incubator.
- She made a lot of mistakes along the way by getting involved in dead end projects.
- After meeting Joel, as they were growing Personality Hacker, they were starving artists.
- She just keeps going until circumstances force her to stop, and nothing has forced her to stop yet.
Do something outrageous. Don’t force yourself to fit into the templatized world.
Don’t feel like you have to fit into the mold. Careers and the business industry are just as broken as the school system. Square pegs into the round holes. Most companies hire on the stupidest criteria.
Bypass the entire system and do something outrageous.
Remove the limiting beliefs that things should be done a certain way.
We shouldn’t be looking at the older generation’s concept of career as a model for modern behavior.
Joel’s Story:
- He grew up in a very religious paradigm. He didn’t get the message it was wrong to have a career.
- As long as he weaved God into his career, it was okay.
- His parents decided to start a non-profit youth ministry camp.
- Lots of creative outlets.
- He was encouraged to follow creative pursuits. His father was on the radio in Pittsburgh doing a religious based program.
- Joel was taught to produce and script radio programs at 12-13 years old.
- He wanted to go into that creative field. He was encouraged to do so.
- He went to college and got his masters in leadership to work as a leader in ministry. He has a Masters in theology. Bachelor’s in communication.
- He worked in his parent’s ministry for three years and got married.
- She wanted to move to her hometown Baltimore, so Joel ripped himself away from his career path and went to work at the Baltimore Zoo.
- He had been homeschooled and employed in his parent’s ministry. He never had a day job where he had to report to a boss and clock in and clock out.
- He worked at the zoo for five years. Every time he brought up creative ideas, he was usually shot down in preference for the status quo.
- His marriage ended. After having two children.
- He never lost the desire to be creative. He felt trapped.
- Joel would leverage his experience in his job by going to pod camps or take on any public speaking opportunities to harness new opportunities.
- He started doing video work for other companies in Baltimore in an attempt to broaden his options.
- He would reframe his experience at the zoo, so he didn’t focus on the misery of the job. He would view it as CEO training. He would listen to personal growth podcasts when he could. He would spend weekends and evenings working on other opportunities.
- He met Antonia at an NLP event in LA. Moves to Las Vegas to start connecting with what he felt he was meant to do.
- Five years later they are running PH, focused on personal growth and helping others to create a better world.
- Joel worked a job that was depressing to him, but he kept telling himself it would be okay and he never gave up. He never stopped hustling.
Try new things. If they fail, try again. A lot of entrepreneurs have a ton of false starts before they hit the thing that works.
At some point, they both decided the status quo was not for them.
If you are not going to go the traditional route, you are going to have to hustle and try new things and be willing to struggle.
Most people go down the traditional road because it is a well-worn path. Tried and true.
If a traditional career feels good to you, go for it.
Give yourself permission to do other things if the traditional path is not what you want.
Don’t let what you think you have to do get in the way of what you want to do.
It isn’t the only path. There are always other options.
We live in an ever-changing world, and more possibilities are coming. There are no rules about what you have to do.
If your inner wisdom tells you to do something different than what you are doing, listen to that voice.
Anytime the stakes are high we create a lot of narratives to make sure everyone stays on track. Otherwise, things may get destabilized.
There are a lot of narratives around safety and security.
If a voice inside says you want to do something else, turn up the volume. Give it a try. Your one regret at the end of your life may be that you didn’t listen to that voice.
Ask yourself:
If you could duplicate your exact income right now, but you didn’t have to do your current job, what would you do?
If your answer isn’t “I would be doing what I’m doing now,” you may need to reevaluate.
Where are you at right now? Are you passionate about what you are doing? How did you get there?
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17 comments
This is the first episode of your podcast that I have listened to, and man, you guys resonated with me so much. I feel the universe provided this piece of inspiration exactly when I needed it.
My story seems like a combination of both of yours, interestingly enough. I just don’t have a supportive partner, yet, haha.
I am “uneducated” I have a few certificates, including one from a college, but I never received my high school diploma (I would have graduated about 11 years ago). I struggle with this because I feel that people don’t take you as seriously. I have a high enough intelligence level that a university degree would not be academically challenging, but it seems to be hard for people to take your intelligence and/or drive seriously without that piece of paper.
I have a kid from a separated marriage, which adds its challenges.
I also came up from a fairly religious household, which I am finding has left some marks that effect my confidence and drive, as well as a reluctance to come out with my adult-formed beliefs, which can clash considerably with how I was raised.
If I could duplicate my exact salary for a year… I would be doing more of exactly what I am doing in my free time. I volunteer at a local, independent community radio station. Man, what I wouldn’t do to do it full time. I also volunteer the rest of my time and talents to my passion, which I will get to.
You ask where I am at… I am at the edge. I am currently slaving my time to a corporation that doesn’t jive with my ethics, treats its employees poorly and is very physically demanding. But it’s the highest paying, securest job I could find that fits my education level (none worth mentioning). I am not passionate about this job at all… but I am working on my passion.
In the time I have that I can call my own, aside from volunteering at the station, I volunteer my time to myself, essentially. I have a dream of starting a non-profit. I am an ENTP, like you, Antonia, and so the daily grind is… a real grind. So, the non-profit is fairly broad based, with a number of things to do. Don’t worry, I have an INFJ for a best friend to keep me focused. I am currently producing a podcast (already started, 10 episodes in). I also plan to produce mostly educational video content and blog work. I will work for my wage doing design and consultation, and oversee a foundation striving to promote equality, community and permaculture through a variety of programs.
I am very passionate about this work. It is all based on a concept called Permaculture.
How did I get here? It’s a long and complex story. I was in a rough state for a while. Depression and anxiety were a daily struggle and financial and & time burdens that were beginning to feel like too much. My marriage failed for a variety of reasons, and contributed a number of factors to my current state. Then I found some community, and a spark of that passion. I received my first permaculture certificate (I say first, because it is the first of many to come) in May of this year. I was surrounded by love and support. When came back to daily life after the course, which was in the forest, surrounded by people, situations dragged me back down and I didn’t do much. I produced a few shows of my podcast, but even that felt lackluster. I lacked direction.
Things stayed like that for a little while, aimlessly trying to do something creative, something bigger… but without purpose, it was beginning to become very grey, just like everything else.
It all changed, recently, the day I found my magic. I found in me a piece of positivity that can’t be contained. It has a physical manifestation in a charm, but I know it’s all inside me. That day was filled with community again. I felt the generosity of the city come out during the radio station’s funding drive, and it inspired me to pursue the non-profit path.
So, I’m on the edge. I’m living both the daily grind that I dislike very strongly and I’m currently following my passion. I am hoping soon I can transition to full time following my passion.
Long story short: I am both living the daily grind, struggling for my wage to pay for my bills, but also living my passion.
Congratulations Jonnie! I am happy to hear that you have found a more satisfying life. Freedom is pretty amazing, isn’t it? :)
Hello! This episode is just what I needed. Thank you :)
I am currently struggling with what to do next. I got my degree in Computer Science and after graduating I got a programming job that I kept for 3 years. I just quit in April to travel around the country to rock climb. I feel incredibly conflicted about what I should do with my life after the trip.
I have a lot of phases. I love researching new things and picking up new skills. I get so excited about a new thing that I can’t sleep because I’m thinking about it and then it’s the first thing I think about when I wake up. But sadly, eventually I lose interest. I have some recurring phases, things that I will get out of for a while but then they always come back.
I could easily go back to the software industry. But I don’t want to just get another programming job because it’s more exciting to me to start something new. But it feels silly to go and start a new career because I know eventually I will just want something new again. (I don’t remember which episode, but I know there was one where you guys specifically referenced this struggle for Exploration types)
My current struggle is to come up with how to make money and also satisfy my need to consistently have new and exciting things.
Thank you so much for bringing Personality Hacker into the world!
This was a really cool Podcast. Thank yous so much for sharing your stories, it gives me hope that I don’t have to be stuck in cubicle forever. I’m going to give the question “If you could duplicate your exact income right now, but you didn’t have to do your current job, what would you do?” some serious thought. I love the idea of being able to break free of the 8-5 job and pursuing my passions. Thank you for your great questions and insights!
Hi Joel and Antonia
Wow, this was a very timely podcast for me.
Thank you so much for sharing your story as I am in a very similar predicament.
Your whole podcast is so inspiring and just what I needed as I was getting completely bogged down in the internal conflict of what is to be seen as the right move as opposed to what is the right move for me long term.
Just recently I also lost my religion which was a big deal. It caused a lot of anxiety and many many regrets as I had been very involved and loyal to it.
However when evidence becomes so overwhelming it is time to let it go.
If you haven’t already guessed, I’m an INTJ.
I also have this burning fire in my belly, but also feel so trapped in my current situation.
I have had a number of failed business ventures which has not been able to generate stable income. So now I’m gearing up to go back on the hamster wheel (working a job). It just feels so wrong in my gut and feels like I’m heading in the completely wrong direction. I have been very depressed of late as I could not see any other way out than going back on the hamster wheel, even though my gut is twisting and turning over it. I do feel a strong commitment to meet my obligations to my family, but this in turn seems to kill the creativity that will eventually lead to being able to create the value necessary to live a fulfilling life.
If I had a stable income and could do whatever I wanted for the next 12 month, I would work on bringing new sustainable energy sources to market. I watched a Leonardo DiCaprio documentary the other day called: “Before the Flood” where he travels around the world to document how we humans are in the process of destroying our planet and its environment. He also interviews President Barack Obama, who goes on to say that we have to wait 20 years until new technologies comes online to replace our current fossil fuel dependence. What President Obama never said anything about is that there are over 5300 Patents currently being withheld by the US Patent office which could very quickly transition the world away from fossil fuels and over to clean sustainable energy sources. Clean sustainable energy sources has been invented and available for many years, but are being withheld on the grounds of National Security.
This is totally insane and should be addressed ASAP for the sake of humanity and the planet.
I have a friend who owns technology which can totally eliminate CO emissions from current coal fired power plants and totally eliminate CO2, CO, SO2 and NOx.
That is just one example for two major areas, but vested interests fight to maintain status que.
As you can probably tell creating a sustainable environment for humanity and the planet is where my passion is. Why are humans the only species on this planet who diligently work towards destroying their own habitat???