• Self-parenting
  • Women can have Hephaestus as their animus
  • Self-validate.
  • You don’t have to live with the baggage from the past
  • Don’t let the past color the future. It is part of what forged you.
  • Some people may appear to have an easy ride.
  • Challenges are the things that make us who we are. We set the tone for the rest of the ride.
  • See self as a positive influence.
  • Ares = Protector
  • Hephaestus = Genius
  • Set the tone for the rest of your life and go toward a more positive frame
  • In this episode Joel and Antonia continue a short series talking about the god archetypes that show up for some people. This episode details the rejected son gods in everyman. #podcast #archetypes

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    In this episode, Joel and Antonia continue a short series talking about the god archetypes that show up for some people. This episode details the rejected son gods in everyman.

    In this podcast you’ll find:

    • Animus and Anima – Feminine and Masculine Archetypes
    • Goddesses in Everywoman by Jean Bolen
    • Gods in Everyman by Jean Bolen
    • Episode on Vulnerable Goddesses
    • Episode on virgin goddesses
    • Episode on Alchemical Goddess
    • Episode on Gods In Everyman — The Father God Archetypes
    • 3 categories of son gods
    • All sons of Zeus
    • Ares and Hephaestus mirror Poseidon more than Zeus in that they are more emotional and less strategic.
    • Ares and Hephaestus are looking for approval as son gods, so their rejection impacts them whereas Poseidon doesn’t seek external approval, so he isn’t concerned as much about being an emotional man in a thinker world
    • Ares
    • God of War
    • Warrior depicted in full armor
    • Very masculine
    • Least respected of all the Greek gods
    • Romans respected the God of War as Mars
    • Only son of Hera and Zeus
    • Learned the art of dance then transitioned to warrior training.
    • Tense relationship with sister Athena
    • Ares had lots of children and was very protective of them
    • Homer’s depiction of Ares loss in the Trojan War is mostly to blame for Ares reputation
    • Ares was put on trial for killing the son of Poseidon who raped Ares daughter
    • Ares is called The Lover – he never exploited women
    • Zeus hated Ares because of his hot-headed impulsive nature
    • Ares believed in “live and let live” – he wasn’t as vindictive as Poseidon
    • Ares physical impulsiveness is more Extraverted Sensing from a cognitive function viewpoint
    • Physical expressiveness can be distasteful for men in a Zeus-like world
    • Ares identity could die over time if he is forced to be a feeler in thinker clothing
    • He acts like he is not emotional and sensual, but his body betrays him with the clenched jaw or tightened fist
    • This is dangerous to an Ares body which needs to dance and express itself fluidly
    • Depression, regret, fish out of water
    • Archetype: expressive, emotional boy who learns by doing
    • Drugged as kids to fit in and sit still to learn
    • ADHD
    • Impulsive, Spontaneous, kinesthetic
    • If an Ares archetype can be in a context that encourages their physical expressiveness, they will be a lot happier
    • Not an easy kid to raise. He will need a lot of attention and channeling from parents
    • Peer groups are important to an Ares man who will help forge him in his teen years and prevent him from overreaching
    • Ares men are attracted to physical, active jobs. Sitting at a desk would not be the ideal for an Ares man.
    • Soldiering – warrior ethos
    • Athletes – competitive spirit
    • Life can happen to Ares men if they aren’t paying attention
    • Impulsiveness is the Achilles heel of Ares
    • Old Testament Samson was an Ares archetype – Delilah was an Aphrodite character who he became utterly passionate about until she ruined his life.
    • King David from the Bible was also likely an Ares archetype – Warrior king, dancer, lover
    • Jamie Lannister from Game of Thrones is probably also an Ares
    • If Ares men have experienced abuse they can go the other way and become abusers
    • Bro Culture
    • When Athenas surround Ares, he may start to look very misogynistic
    • When Aphrodites surround him, he is very generous with women
    • Ares seeks out physical connection/affection which can be misinterpreted as Bro Culture
    • Ares behavior is more related to a need going unmet rather than some ulterior motive
    • Ares receives a lot of rejection because he doesn’t fit in some cultures
    • 2016 Election: Ares men feeling marginalized by society
    • They voted against Athena and for someone who promised them a return to fundamental values
    • Trump may be Ares
    • Obama was likely an Apollo
    • Challenges Ares struggles with could be work/life balance
    • Temptation towards substance abuse or alcoholism due to a desire to feel intense physical engagement
    • Infidelity. Multiple children with multiple women
    • The more rejected Ares felt as a child, the more likely he is to have impulsive, thoughtless decisions as an adult
    • Ares needs to give himself (or herself) permission to feel the experience and be in his body
    • Expressive
    • Slow down and use kinesthetic awareness in a more present space
    • Stop acting and explore your true essence
    • Ares can get into a more Hermes state of mind and learn better self-expression
    • Not about skill but permission – it is okay to express your feelings
    • Nonviolent Communication
    • Athena was a tough test for Ares because she was so judgmental of him
    • Alternatively, Athena can be the motherly voice of conscience that Ares needs to chill out
    • Athenas need to avoid name calling if they are trying to get through to Ares men
    • Ares changed from being the least respected God in the Greek pantheon to the most respected god in the Roman pantheon due to his ability to slow down, mature, and protect
    • Hephaestus
    • God of the Forge
    • Loner
    • Underworld workshop
    • Clubfoot gives him a hobble
    • Creative genius
    • Born of Hera as a virgin birth
    • Hera is embarrassed by Hephaestus clubfoot, and she rejects him
    • A couple of sea nymphs raise him and teach him his craft
    • Archetype: difficult physical deficiency – either real or perceived
    • Misunderstood, rejected, cheated out of what is his
    • His wife Aphrodite cheated on him repeatedly
    • Subterranean fire – feelings that boiled under the surface
    • He would pine for things that were impossible for him to have so he would channel it toward his creativity
    • Family peacekeeper
    • His relationship with Aphrodite is fascinating
    • She chose Hephaestus even though she was in a long-standing relationship with Ares
    • Hephaestus was smart
    • He could never get any respect, so he sublimated his emotions like Ares
    • Archetype: Intensely introverted man, loner, interested in machines and building things
    • There may be a physical ailment hindering him, or he is the black sheep in his family
    • Arts and crafts help him express
    • He feels like he doesn’t belong anywhere, but he is a hard worker
    • He doesn’t get a lot of attention from women, but women play a significant role in his life.
    • Gay Hephaestus men are often drawn to the beauty of women as an art form but not sexually
    • As Good As It Gets
    • Greg Kinnear – Gay Hephaestus artist
    • Tyrian Lannister in Game of Thrones may be a Hephaestus, to begin with, but evolves thru the show
    • The rejection of their parents makes Hephaestus men nurture oriented
    • HBO “Succession” Oldest son may be Hephaestus
    • Hephaestus has an intense sexual nature to him that he channels back into his work
    • Think and Grow Rich by Napoleon Hill writes a chapter about channeling sexual energy toward productivity
    • It’s not uncommon for Hephaestus men to internalize the perception of brokenness, so they end up turning their art into this perception
    • Your mess is your message
    • Dr. House is a genius surgeon – a loner with a bum leg – very Hephaestus character expressing his brokenness in his genius medical techniques
    • Hephaestus can be quite stubborn
    • He tends to be in relationships with Aphrodites and Athenas
    • Beauty and alcohol tend to open him up – coax him
    • Hephaestus can be neglectful of his lover when he is making love to his projects
    • He has a few close alliances/friends
    • Aphrodites can be attracted to Hephaestus because of the meeting of craftsmanship and beauty.
    • It was their alliance that birthed art, according to mythology.
    • Hephaestus also falls in love with Athena, but she rejects him because she is a virgin goddess.
    • His semen gave birth to a dynasty of kings when he tried to pair with Athena
    • When Hephaestus combines forces with an Athena woman, it can be a powerful alliance where she helps him get things done and put his art into the world
    • Hephaestus can mistake his subjective interpretation of a situation for reality
    • He can idealize the things he pines for and live in a fantasy world
    • He needs to get more objective info into his life
    • He can unintentionally create an oppressive environment with his idealism and expect the world to behave in a way that matches his aspiration
    • Know Thyself
    • Put attention to the outside world and know others
    • Don’t pre-reject others<


    • Priscilla
      • Priscilla
      • December 19, 2020 at 3:10 pm

      So I just finished listening to this super interesting episode and I was wondering. Is it possible for a woman to have an animus that has a bit of both archetypes? Because I feel very connected to both Ares and Hephaestus. Any thoughts?

    • .:,
      • .:,
      • April 16, 2019 at 7:41 pm

      I’d love to add to fictional examples of Ares Anakin Skywalker (with a bit of Hephaestus because engineering). Hotheaded, physically gifted, cocky, passionate, especially about protecting people and punishing evildoers and unable to give up personal connections. Being knight suitshim, but being jedi not so much. Jedi are very sky gods – pure calm rationality and he has hard time fitting in. Interesting is his romance with Padme, because she is very Athena (Lucas stumbled a lot writing them, especially in EII). Perhaps it could be said, that in EII, when with Anakin on Naboo, he brings out Aphrodite in her and in EIII she gives me impression of Persephone. Obi-wan looks like Apollo – so proper and sticks to being faithful subordinate and doesn’t really manage to be father figure, he plays older brother much better and he and Anakin can be great team. Qui-gon could be Poseidon – doesn’t give a damn about approval and has his own way of doing things, Living Force and stuff and chances are he could have been a better mentor for Anakin. What in hell and heaven is Palpatine/Sidious? Wicked Zeus, because that guy was heartless politic and manipulator, or wicked Poseidon, because he was darksider (rage and hate and ambition) and manipulator?

    • Tim
      • Tim
      • October 10, 2018 at 7:37 pm

      I was listening to this very interesting series waiting to find some of the archetypes that I would resonate with. I’m an INTP, so I figured it would be one of the more cerebral detached types, but I was blown away by how much every detail of the Ares type hit home for me. I feel like the only real intimacy I have sometimes is when I’m with a group of guys doing something physically challenging like crossfit or while working as a wildland firefighter. Maybe it’s the 3 year old, ex Feeling, finding small ways to connect in a less abstract way.

      The theme of rejection runs nicely through INTPs and Ares as well.
      Pretty Neato

    • Taneli
      • Taneli
      • October 4, 2018 at 2:46 pm

      Hey Antonia. The Rush (great band ?) way of pronouncing Dionisis is closer to the Greek pronunciation than the one used predominantly in the podcast.

      Great series btw. Sparked some insights about myself and gave me some new ways to see myself and appreciate others.

    • S.P.D.E.H. Artemis
      • S.P.D.E.H. Artemis
      • September 7, 2018 at 2:53 am

      Hi Antonia and Joel, I have a question concerning a sister of mine whose animus I believe is an Ares. So I have two sisters, I am the eldest and my archetype is Artemis with either Hades or Hephaestus as my animus, I think. The next sister (in the birth order) I believe has an archetype of Persephone with her animus as Ares. My third has (of course as always: I believe, I’m not an expert at this of course) an archetype of Athena and an animus of Zeus (or Poseidon, or both). When we were little my two younger sisters constantly fought. My Athena sister constantly walked over the top of my Persephone sister, and as an Artemis archetype I always tried to protect my Persephone sister from my Athena/Zeus sister, but I wasn’t always there. So for a very long time my Persephone sister bent under the reign of my Athena sister and ran to me for protection, but finally she became queen of the underworld and bucked my Athena sister off her back.

      Now my Persephone sister is the only feeler in our family, and the rest of my family is composed of all thinkers. My dad is a definite Zeus/Poseidon/Hades, and an ISTJ though he acts more like a Zeus with us. My mom is an ENTP ( I don’t really know which archetype she is), and of course there’s my other sister and I who are INTP (me) and ESTJ (sis).

      So here’s where Ares comes in: I believe that my Persephone sister has an Ares animus, since she is the only feeler in a family of thinkers. Her love-language is touch, she is very active and likes to blow through life, and she really needs someone to sympathize, but we all just try to solve her problems for her. So all her life she has been in the proverbial jar and has had to suppress her emotions. So finally she had had enough, and broke out of the jar, but she did not have a girl “bro culture” to lean on and she was often rejected by the rest of us, because I have trouble with physical affection, though I am better now, and my other sister copied me in that regard, and my dad is bad at getting close to people, and my mom is close at times, and not at other times, and is also very bad at sympathizing. In a lot of ways we, as Antonia has said in other podcasts, knocked the taco out of her hands. The ways she showed love we have often either rejected and or taken advantage of, because we did not understand how she showed love and we did not understand (at least some of us) that that was her showing love.

      So now this sister stomps around like an Ares trying to prove that people can’t oppress her and tell her what to do. I never ask her for favors, because she never grants them, just to prove that she can not be told what to do anymore. She has become very defensive now and she will not listen to any advise whatsoever. Lately my mom has been having trouble with her because she keeps making bad decisions (she is now 18) and my mom tries to advise and warn her, but she won’t listen to my mom. So I was wondering what we can do about it, how exactly can we help her and make her feel more loved. Unfortunately with her and I, we often knock the tacos out of each others’ hands because the way I communicate love, by telling her the truth and helping her to solve her problems, she does not appreciate, and I have some trouble with physical affection, and when she becomes very emotive and complains to me, I become uncomfortable and result to analyzing the situation. The same kind of goes with my other family members, except I get uncomfortable, they just kind of get irritated and scoff at her. So my question is how do I and my family aid her in becoming a more healthy Ares? How do we help her become more of the protector and the caretaker instead of the impulsive, reactive, aggressive war god? She won’t listen to us most of the time, so how do we gain her trust, and allow her to express herself healthfully? She is actually extremely bad at communication, so how do we act as Hermes and help her to communicate, and in turn to listen? Thanks.

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