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In this episode, Joel and Antonia talk with Enneagram experts Dr. Beatrice Chestnut & Uranio Paes about the Body Center Of Intelligence in the Enneagram system. The body Center contains Enneagram types 8 – 9 – and 1.


In this podcast you’ll find:

  • Guest hosts Dr. Beatrice Chestnut and Uranio Paes join.
  • The Enneagram, Myers-Briggs® and how they relate to ego work.
  • The Enneagram system in a nutshell.
  • What do Beatrice and Uranio mean when they use the terms “ego” and “personality”?
  • The three centers of intelligence within the Enneagram and how they relate to our personality and behavior.
  • What does it mean to be a “body type” – and what’s the upside and downside to this?
  • What are the main obstacles the body types experience in day-to-day life?
  • The relationship each body type has with the emotion of anger.
  • Thinking of ourselves as “three-brained beings” and recognizing the need to access the other centers of intelligence.
  • How the body types can begin to use the Enneagram as a growth tool.
    • How you can gain a broader perspective and access the wisdom of the other centers.
  • A summary of the main challenges the body types face.
  • What are some of the action steps you can take towards growth right now as a body type?
  • Learn more about Beatrice and Uranio’s work via their website, listen to their podcast, or check-out their book: The Enneagram Guide To Waking Up.

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We want to hear from you. Leave your comments below…


  • Johno
    • Johno
    • February 17, 2022 at 5:06 pm

    I want to chat about coaching —

  • Johno
    • Johno
    • October 20, 2021 at 3:38 pm

    The enneagram thing was great! I found it really valuable! And I enjoyed it right up until the part where they delivered info about the way forward for type 1, which turns out to be exactly the toughest medicine to swallow, and which I would summarize as “give everything 60% instead of 100%”

    So now I did it, I’ve been living at like 60% for a few weeks. And for two of them I did this absurd thing where I just countered any critical thoughts with positive ones even though there wasn’t evidence for the positive ones.

    I think that they are right that this is necessary for ego work, but, how do I survive it at a professional and physical and financial level? I feel like I need to ask my boss to cut my pay to 60% and I feel like a horrible father and just basically like I’m going to spiral into oblivion.

    I understand the idea of this work, but I don’t understand how it’s like actually survivable.

    And now I’m like omg I need therapy to learn to live this way, I would love to consult with Antonia! But I literally added like $1,000 to my credit card on pizza and alcohol this month and have no money any more!

    I feel like the part where they said “type 1 says: if I didn’t have the critic I would be in jail or dead” is just so true I don’t understand how to get past that.

  • Antonia Dodge
    • Antonia Dodge
    • September 24, 2021 at 12:11 am

    This was hilarious to read. I hope it fixes all of your problems and more. :P

    BTW – I’ve started coaching again. Just started up again this summer. I’m more expensive now, but if you want to get coaching from me let us know.


  • johno
    • johno
    • September 23, 2021 at 4:12 pm

    OK, after Like 6 years of relying on your content to survive I have finally given you money. I cannot believe that it was for enneagram.

    To be fair I tried to give you money at the end of 2016 and had a initial coaching session scheduled with Antonia but it was canceled last minute because her yearly intention setting was “stop coaching” … jk it was something about spending time with her daughter probably :)

    I have read a lot about enneagram and I always find it deeply unsatisfying. But, your podcast with Christian helped me consider for the first time that I might be an ENTP type 1. I had studied 7 and 8 and 5 and 6, and 3 and 4. Id always skipped over type 1 because I don’t relAte to having an internal critic and I thought type 1 was like istj

    INTP Christian’s discovery was quite helpful for me to hear! I realized this internal critic idea is an outsider description of what I experience as unbiased comparison of reality to the ideal, and thst comparison is brutal. But I always thought of an internal critic as some kind of, nagging emotional no nonsense thing, like an istj hesring their grandmothers voice in their head. I hear the voice of not my grandmother but of an autistic scientist measuring failure rate to a few decimal points.

    And I always try to remember we are doing pretty well for apes.

    Anyway I went back and read type 1 in BCs book and RRs book and I can see how the type 1 sexual/social subtype is a fit for this Entp who grew up with the goal of becoming the mormon prophet snd knew my eternal purpose was to become perfect.

    So now I am buying your enneagram thing because my autistic scientist critic tells me “if Antonia thinks enneagram is valuable then the probability I’m missing something here is very high indeed”

    But I’m gonna fucking return it if it doesn’t fix all my spiritual problems. Jk.

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