Making Personality Type Operational | Podcast 567

Loren
January 28, 2025 at 7:16 am

Hello Antonia and Joel! I think this question of operability is vitally important. I went back and listened to the podcast from years ago distinguishing between Personality Type vs. Personality Traits, which touches on many of the same themes. One question you bring up in that episode is the difference between applying a system vs. making the system operable.

For me, applying something precedes making it operable—application is superficial (applying makeup or applying a sticker, something that can be washed or peeled off). Applying the model is equivalent to “faking it until you make it” in the sense that you believe that insights from the model will work and will effect change, but without having had the experience or wisdom yet to support this belief. Once you start implementing the model and adopting it as a mindset, once it becomes integrated, then it becomes fully operational. The application has seeped into the system and become an intrinsic part of it, part of its operation.

In this episode, you discuss vocabulary and metaphor. Since you have created the amazing deck of cards (that I love using), perhaps you could add in the notion of “playbook”—taking things from the playbook, implementing different modes of interpretation/action—i.e. plays—as would a player on a volleyball court or football field (if a sports metaphor might resonate more with the person who is playing).

This rejoins another of your earlier podcasts on whether one sees life as a narrative or a game. I loved this distinction and have used it with my students. It encourages agency, allowing people to envision situations as games in which and to which one can react in a myriad of different ways. It takes out the fatalism that always haunts the notion of story and activates it through open fun and potential. And choice.

LOVE, LOVE, LOVE you guys. Thank you for the insights you share with such generosity.

Heather McNichols
December 23, 2024 at 3:24 pm

I just got done listening to this episode and had some thoughts come up. I am a long time listener of the show, thank you, and I have been hearing Joel mention over and over about making type more operational and I have found myself pondering this as well. Like so many, type was something that I “happened” upon and as soon as I read the quick internet synopsis of my type, I was hooked because I finally felt I had some explanation to who I am and explanations as to why I do and think what I do. I then began my journey into type and it has been instrumental in my own growth as well as deepening and expanding relationships in my life. As you say “I hacked” my family and have been able to understand them and connect better because of it. I subsequently went on to rolling out a program at work and effectively doing the same thing. But as I did this with both my family and coworkers, I found in both arenas, some that were very open and excited about it and others that rolled their eyes and dismissed it. (I found this frustrating because I know the great power that it holds!) Anyway, as a fellow ENFP, I have been swirling around in my head thoughts and ideas on how to do exactly what this episode was about. I emphatically agree that their must be various access points, simply because the very nature of type is showing us our differences in how our brains work. Thus, a feeler will need a feeling access point, where as a thinker will need a logical one. So this gets muddled and clunky, because no matter what, you have to go through some sort of process to determine their type before you can “help” them. Whether it be having them take an online quiz or typing them through a conversation, an exchange still has to occur and many people are closed off to this. In my opinion, the ones who need it the most. So there has to be a stealth mode version in order to still accomplish this. As I was listening to this episode and when you both were talking about using type without the other person knowing it, is exactly what we need. I thought of how tarot works, we aren’t all readers, there are those who were “bit by that bug” and that is how they contribute to the world and there are others who are just observers of it and glean what we need from it. I believe that this is how type is too. There are those that are “called” to it to become the experts or “lightbringers” , like yourselves :), and those that will simply benefit from it, whether they realize it or not, and that’s ok. So my thought was maybe this, what if there were simple and distilled down resources for those of us in the wild that will help us to get a quick snapshot of how to determine a type from observation? I recognize that this won’t be as foolproof and I know you said you don’t want to “McDonaldize” it, but the reason the iPhone is what it is, is because everyone can use it. Meaning, those that are these “typebringers lol” will still want alllll the knowledge and theory and will consume it all, because it is in them, but then we need it to be simplified so that we can use it day to day. Using the car theme that you guys already have going, I was thinking it would be something like a “quick start guide.” The car has all these other features available and if you would like to know all that it does and how, then you can read the owners manual, but here is efectively how to get the car to run and use it’s main functions that everyone needs. You will likely be more motivated to learn all the ins and outs of your own car, but it is doubtful that you will do that for someone elses car. So what if there were these guides for all the types that would come in a pack, similar to the cards you have already done, but mainly for those of us that will need to reference them in response to others or how to identify people? So that we could be using our sword without anyone knowing, yet somehow we can get further with them than others, or give better advice, or the like. Almost like an oracle, but really you just have hacked their system! I know that this would be helpful for me, because I don’t always have immediate access to how to respond to say an ESTP, but if I had a guide card that I could pull out or maybe a screenshot that had info like what to say when they’re mad or upset, what to suggest when there is a problem, things like this. Characteristics or attributes to look for to identify what they are. And maybe these could be easier to sort of memorize, so that you would have access to them in any given moment? Maybe there are markers that could be identified? IDK, I haven’t fleshed it all out yet, as I am doing that as I write lol. I just feel like maybe it is just too intricate and complex of a system for all and if everything in the world is drilled down to bite sized nuggets now, than in order for this to be applicable to all, I think we would need something like this. I don’t think that you need to worry too much about it getting lost though, because I firmly believe like many things out there in the aether, that if you’re called to it you will stop at nothing to consume it, but that ethically, all these paths out there are ultimatley leading us to connection, togetherness, love and peace. And I think we need all of them to harmoniously work together. Thank you for reading my ramblings! Love all you do!

3 comments

- Loren
- January 28, 2025 at 7:16 am
Hello Antonia and Joel! I think this question of operability is vitally important. I went back and listened to the podcast from years ago distinguishing between Personality Type vs. Personality Traits, which touches on many of the same themes. One question you bring up in that episode is the difference between applying a system vs. making the system operable.

For me, applying something precedes making it operable—application is superficial (applying makeup or applying a sticker, something that can be washed or peeled off). Applying the model is equivalent to “faking it until you make it” in the sense that you believe that insights from the model will work and will effect change, but without having had the experience or wisdom yet to support this belief. Once you start implementing the model and adopting it as a mindset, once it becomes integrated, then it becomes fully operational. The application has seeped into the system and become an intrinsic part of it, part of its operation.

In this episode, you discuss vocabulary and metaphor. Since you have created the amazing deck of cards (that I love using), perhaps you could add in the notion of “playbook”—taking things from the playbook, implementing different modes of interpretation/action—i.e. plays—as would a player on a volleyball court or football field (if a sports metaphor might resonate more with the person who is playing).

This rejoins another of your earlier podcasts on whether one sees life as a narrative or a game. I loved this distinction and have used it with my students. It encourages agency, allowing people to envision situations as games in which and to which one can react in a myriad of different ways. It takes out the fatalism that always haunts the notion of story and activates it through open fun and potential. And choice.

LOVE, LOVE, LOVE you guys. Thank you for the insights you share with such generosity.
- Bonbon
- December 26, 2024 at 8:04 am
As I listened to this podcast. (Um, which I learn SO much from everyone! Thank you!) I thought of this song I think is you 2! Look it up. It’s called Breadcrumbs by the Perennials. Go look it up. Love love love you guys SO much. I am a born and raised O-town native :)
- Heather McNichols
- December 23, 2024 at 3:24 pm
I just got done listening to this episode and had some thoughts come up. I am a long time listener of the show, thank you, and I have been hearing Joel mention over and over about making type more operational and I have found myself pondering this as well. Like so many, type was something that I “happened” upon and as soon as I read the quick internet synopsis of my type, I was hooked because I finally felt I had some explanation to who I am and explanations as to why I do and think what I do. I then began my journey into type and it has been instrumental in my own growth as well as deepening and expanding relationships in my life. As you say “I hacked” my family and have been able to understand them and connect better because of it. I subsequently went on to rolling out a program at work and effectively doing the same thing. But as I did this with both my family and coworkers, I found in both arenas, some that were very open and excited about it and others that rolled their eyes and dismissed it. (I found this frustrating because I know the great power that it holds!) Anyway, as a fellow ENFP, I have been swirling around in my head thoughts and ideas on how to do exactly what this episode was about. I emphatically agree that their must be various access points, simply because the very nature of type is showing us our differences in how our brains work. Thus, a feeler will need a feeling access point, where as a thinker will need a logical one. So this gets muddled and clunky, because no matter what, you have to go through some sort of process to determine their type before you can “help” them. Whether it be having them take an online quiz or typing them through a conversation, an exchange still has to occur and many people are closed off to this. In my opinion, the ones who need it the most. So there has to be a stealth mode version in order to still accomplish this. As I was listening to this episode and when you both were talking about using type without the other person knowing it, is exactly what we need. I thought of how tarot works, we aren’t all readers, there are those who were “bit by that bug” and that is how they contribute to the world and there are others who are just observers of it and glean what we need from it. I believe that this is how type is too. There are those that are “called” to it to become the experts or “lightbringers” , like yourselves :), and those that will simply benefit from it, whether they realize it or not, and that’s ok. So my thought was maybe this, what if there were simple and distilled down resources for those of us in the wild that will help us to get a quick snapshot of how to determine a type from observation? I recognize that this won’t be as foolproof and I know you said you don’t want to “McDonaldize” it, but the reason the iPhone is what it is, is because everyone can use it. Meaning, those that are these “typebringers lol” will still want alllll the knowledge and theory and will consume it all, because it is in them, but then we need it to be simplified so that we can use it day to day. Using the car theme that you guys already have going, I was thinking it would be something like a “quick start guide.” The car has all these other features available and if you would like to know all that it does and how, then you can read the owners manual, but here is efectively how to get the car to run and use it’s main functions that everyone needs. You will likely be more motivated to learn all the ins and outs of your own car, but it is doubtful that you will do that for someone elses car. So what if there were these guides for all the types that would come in a pack, similar to the cards you have already done, but mainly for those of us that will need to reference them in response to others or how to identify people? So that we could be using our sword without anyone knowing, yet somehow we can get further with them than others, or give better advice, or the like. Almost like an oracle, but really you just have hacked their system! I know that this would be helpful for me, because I don’t always have immediate access to how to respond to say an ESTP, but if I had a guide card that I could pull out or maybe a screenshot that had info like what to say when they’re mad or upset, what to suggest when there is a problem, things like this. Characteristics or attributes to look for to identify what they are. And maybe these could be easier to sort of memorize, so that you would have access to them in any given moment? Maybe there are markers that could be identified? IDK, I haven’t fleshed it all out yet, as I am doing that as I write lol. I just feel like maybe it is just too intricate and complex of a system for all and if everything in the world is drilled down to bite sized nuggets now, than in order for this to be applicable to all, I think we would need something like this. I don’t think that you need to worry too much about it getting lost though, because I firmly believe like many things out there in the aether, that if you’re called to it you will stop at nothing to consume it, but that ethically, all these paths out there are ultimatley leading us to connection, togetherness, love and peace. And I think we need all of them to harmoniously work together. Thank you for reading my ramblings! Love all you do!

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Making Personality Type Operational | Podcast 567

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