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In this episode, Joel and Antonia talk about how we have a moment in our lives that we need to change the dynamic between us and our parents.
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21 comments
Antonia, ironically I’m in Portland right now (coming from Phoenix) working through things on a self-imposed midlife sabbatical (51 yo), and independent of your podcast I started a deeper wave of working through parental (mostly mother) stuff. Recently getting through a layer of anger, in the last couple days I seem to be tapping back into some adolescent energy where I mostly did what I wanted, like listen to and jam to Rush. Rush was formative for me (as was sci-fi). Core albums for me were primarily 2112 through Signals, but Hemispheres has been my philosophical and musical go-to, one that I am still trying to play like Lerxst/Lifeson.
The unification of mind and heart is my journey right now (intensively during the last 2-3 years) having had an over-developed Ti (INTP) while now I test as INFP/E4… it’s just taking years to uncover my shadows and rewire myself towards Se and Fi which feels like grasping in the dark but is very healing (and also triggering as I hit deeper buried traumas). In this I have almost entirely rejected my mind’s role, ‘wrote knowledge’, and the so-called wisdom of others in favor of groping somewhat blindly yet as authentically as I can. It is a rocky rebirth, especially the healthy differentiation from parents, which never happened in my adolescence or early adulthood.
A couple years ago I spent 3 months with my parents after a lay off (which spawned a dark night leading to my recent intentional period of growth/healing), hoping to reconcile and connect at a much deeper level. I reached somewhat of a new place with my dad but it was still very strained with my mother who generally refuses to revisit the past. But after getting into coaching, I decided to take a ‘break’ from any significant interaction with them and my brother to break my co-dependent pattern in which I felt inadequate and largely disappeared in the family system. It was supposed to be for three months but has extended to two years, and I have felt like I can breath while I work on my healthy differentiation and HAT w/o onlookers/interpreters/“advisors”. At the same time guilt has been a battle (being a “bad son”), but I feel like I’m letting that go as I sink more into my truth — which includes owning my true feelings like anger, loss, sadness.
I feel like I’m getting to a point where I could see them one-on-one again and “have the talk” which as Joel says airing things I don’t agree (alcohol usage leading to rage) while being willing to potentially be in the fire which I have avoided (and my dad modeled avoiding) my whole life. There is something about the raging/destructive feminine that had terrorized/terrified me my whole life, but I finally feel like I want to and can push back, not to also destroy but to say “that’s not acceptable, you don’t get to dump your pain on me.” It feels like moving from codependent submission and passive-aggression to finally standing up for my independent existence and sovereignty — while letting them be who they are. I would hope that would mean a more healthy and loving relationship, but it might mean that our ‘pain/love maps’ simply do not align, and I would have to get okay with that.
I just downloaded this episode and am really looking forward to listening to it. As someone with a very difficult and complicated relationship with my parents, I’m looking forward to getting some perspective about making peace/coming to terms with them. Good luck, Antonia. You are in my thoughts. Hugs!
I am curious to hear how you will connect childhood issues to type. But Joel has quite a way with cliffhangers via email! lol really though, wanted to come and comment my feeling that this is truly important topic and thinking warmly of Antonia.
Thank you for being honest with us and sharing your story. It’s a really raw issue for you and that makes it really authentic but at the same time it’s not easy for you and I appreciate that.
My father passed away 3 months ago but I don’t think I have a big unresolved issue with him. There were things I was unhappy about as a child and a teen but I’ve made peace with a lot of it in my late teens. I live with my parents still despite being 23 and I’m nowhere near angelic so of course, trivial stuff do pop up every now and then but they’re nothing major.
As it happened though, a week or two before he died, something happened that lead me to confessing my own personal struggle and my fears that I’m not good enough and that I’ll never be worthy but I’ve had conflicting feelings about it after he died. On one hand, I feel relieved that I’ve opened up my true self to my dad, something that I’ve had a problem with. I feel the need to be someone better with him and even in my most open moments with him, there is still a bit of reserve because I don’t want to disappoint him.
On the other, when I confessed to him, there is this bit of hope in me that my dad would help me walk through this issue that I’m trying to overcome and when he died, I felt both abandoned and guilty. It’s not blame really, it’s just that I feel that part of me trying to cement the idea that I’ll never be worthy and that soon someone would be able to pull the drapers and see who I really am and just disappoint everyone. And when I start thinking of how I pull the spotlight onto me makes me feel bad.
It’s a little different than what your topic is about but I think it’s at kind of little related. I still am glad that I ended up talking to him, maybe not about the hurt I felt when I was younger but I’ve already accepted, understood and been at peace with it but if I didn’t make that confession, I think I may feel even more like an imposter. I didn’t tell everything that I feel because I was so scared of disappointing him but I admitted that I was scared at that’s a big part of who I am.
Unfortunately since my dad left us, there’s been a bit of a commotion. Only one of my dad’s five siblings are talking to us and the uncle who my siblings had been closest with is the most vocal with accusations and we’ve been getting snide comments from the cousins group chat. Personally I think that there are a lot of pent up guilt. My dad worked hard in a job that he felt very passionately about and he didn’t spend as much time with his family as a result. I know that they had expressed disappointment about it and a number of other issues and I believe that, not being consciously aware of that guilt, they only felt that something is wrong and are looking for someone to blame and it’s easier to blame the outsider who stole this man from their life.
So I do understand where they come from as much as it hurts to be where we are. In a way, they’re trying to prove to my dad that they loved him but aren’t introspective enough to realise what they’re doing. And while this may sound twisted, I really am glad that I don’t end up feeling the same way and that I had made peace even if it was done by accident.
I hope whatever the outcome Antonia, you are able to address your issue with your own parents and that come what may, you have done your best in trying to resolve it. I hope it all goes well for you and I think that it’s great that you’re taking the initiative yourself and you’re lucky to have such a wonderful partner.
From the other side also thinking of you and hoping you’re going through the experience anchored in yourself and living through some meaningful moments. Sending you support from far away!