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In this episode, Joel and Antonia talk with Dr. Beatrice Chestnut about how the Enneagram has helped her grow personally.

In this podcast you’ll find:

    • Beatrice Chestnut is an Enneagram expert
    • She has been on the podcast before
    • Subtypes give more nuance to the Enneagram
    • Beatrice has authored two books:
    • We are deeply interested in personal growth
    • Some people use the Enneagram model for description only but it is really built for help along the self development path
    • MBTI started out with a more corporate purpose but if you go back far enough to Jung there is some self development aspects.
    • Stories are a great way to illustrate how to use these models for personal growth
    • Beatrice is going to share her story of personal growth using the Enneagram model
    • Beatrice’s journey into personal growth began after she learned the Enneagram
    • It woke her up to who she was.
    • She didn’t understand who she was at the time
    • She learned from David Daniels, M.D.
    • Helen Palmers book on Enneagram
    • Beatrice is an Enneagram 2.
    • The info stopped her in her tracks and shined a light on the things about herself she didn’t understand
    • She was extremely dependent on other people’s approval as an enneagram 2.
    • Helen Palmer says 2s are manipulative
    • Manipulation = moving things around behind the scenes to get things to work out the way you want
    • We see manipulation as bad but in reality it is just one more strategy
    • Our ego is important to help us survive as children but it is limiting when we reach adulthood.
    • Beatrice has worked with the Enneagram for 29 years
    • She is less anxious than she used to be. More peaceful. Happier.
    • The Enneagram is not a stand alone tool. It is a map that highlights your natural strengths and your blind spots.
    • We don’t know what we don’t know
    • Joel’s an Enneagram 6 in the fear triad
    • Initially things gets worse before they get better in personal growth
    • Talking about your anxiety and what makes you anxious makes you less anxious.
    • It helps us understand the sources of our anxiety and we build more compassion for ourselves
    • In search of the Miraculous
    • Existential anxiety awakening to the void
    • 2s lack a sense of self
    • Their attention goes outside of themselves
    • When your attention is focused in one place there’s somewhere it is not focused
    • Beatrice had No idea what she needed or how she was feeling
    • She was a shape shifter and had no idea who she was.
    • Sense of self is the sum total of how we feel from moment to moment
    • She didn’t feel free. She had a thousand strings tied from her to everyone else
    • She couldn’t move because if she moved she might disturb someone else
    • She couldn’t feel secure or confident in herself.
    • She had a lot of friends with this strategy which created a feeling of well being
    • She found some deep sadness within her and when she got reactions from others she realized her happiness was for the benefit of others.
    • Her benefit to the strategy was to make other people like her but she didn’t see the cost
    • “What are you feeling right now?”
    • It helped Beatrice fill in her consciousness around her own feelings
    • These emotions can be scary when you’re first exploring them.
    • “People don’t like angry people so I just won’t be angry.”
    • Eliminate unpleasant emotions.
    • Seeker at heart
    • Self Preservation 2s unconsciously stay young as a way to elicit care from others
    • Beatrice became a therapist as a way to use the Enneagram in her career because she really loved the model
    • She didn’t learn about subtypes until she meet Claudio Naranjo who is one of the seminal authors in the Enneagram movement
    • Subtypes was a revolutionary leap forward for her in the Enneagram model.
    • After learning she was 2 she worked on being authentic and getting in touch with her emotions.
    • After learning she was self-preservation 2, she discovered a basement in her self development territory she didn’t know existed.
    • She was repressing fear, mistrust, and ambivalence
    • She got defensive when she first learned about self preservation.
    • Self Preservations 2s are childlike
    • “When I stand next to you, I don’t think you’re going to protect me. I need to protect you.”
    • Beatrice: “There was an ocean of sadness at the core of my being.”
    • A lot of heart types feel anxious because of the depth of emotion lying underneath everything.
    • Anxiety = unknown territory that can destabilize your life and relationships
    • Always afraid someone was going to get mad at her.
    • Now she is very much in touch with her emotions and sees her connection to her heart as a strength.
    • Beatrice is an ENFP. Her path to growth is Introverted Feeling “Authenticity”
    • That is basically what she did in her path through the Enneagram and therapy.
    • One of the keys to using these models for growth is not allowing the initial ego response to avoid the truth.
    • Value the truth more than your ego’s need to protect itself against critical info.
    • “The truth shall set you free.”
    • Current growth project:
      • Owning her power and strength while also maintaining contact with humility.
    • Humility is the high side of Enneagram 2s.
    • It’s been a challenge for her to not make herself small and still feel grounded in the things she has to share.
    • Striking balance between knowing who she is and how she can help others without getting too unbalanced and fearful.
    • Keep an open mind as you learn new info with this model.
    • Defensiveness and ego can get in the way of learning who you are.
    • Be open to discomfort
    • Let in suffering.
    • Face your shadow.
    • Have a lot of compassion for yourself. Don’t get too critical of yourself.
    • If there is something you don’t like about what you are doing, there is a reason why.
    • Be willing to ask people for help.
    • Alone we can do nothing. We need to have friends on the growth path.
    • Take some of these principals and apply them in your own life.
    • Don’t let your ego get the better of you.
    • Don’t push away the things you don’t like.
    • “I’ll be critical of myself before anyone else can.”
    • Antonia had a story in her head that everything that failed in her life was related to her physical appearance.
    • Overly simplistic and shallow story.
    • The Complete Enneagram: 27 Paths to Greater Self-Knowledge
    • Sexual 3s can come across kind of shallow.
    • As long as you are attractive enough to attract a partner you are fine.
    • Antonia believed if she wasn’t attractive enough that meant death.
    • She knew the programming was bad but she didn’t have the ability to change the code.
    • Even if you’re not the most beautiful person on the planet, does this actually threaten your survival?
    • As an ENTP, Antonia has Extraverted Feeling as her tertiary.
    • She can absorb emotions but only among her intimates.
    • Anxiety is an unacceptable emotion to her and when Joel would go to anxiety she would flee.
    • That is part of his Enneagram journey. He needs something from her but her protectiveness keeps pushing him away.
    • Joel added anxiety to convince her of the importance of what he was trying to say, which only made things worse.
    • Enneagram is a great diagnostic tool and prescriptive.
    • If you have some persistent challenges and you can’t seem to beat them, use the Enneagram to help diagnose what your work is.
    • You need to want the truth more than you want the pain connected to the truth.
    • She doesn’t hazard guesses on people’s Enneagram type but she tries to hold her ideas loosely because it is way too easy to jump to the wrong conclusion about someone.
    • Everybody is the biggest expert on themselves.
    • There’s always overgeneralization on types.
    • Respect people’s boundaries.
    • Uranio Paes, MM

Want to Learn More From Beatrice? Check out:

Enneagram Roadmap

In this episode, Joel and Antonia talk with Dr. Beatrice Chestnut about how the Enneagram has helped her grow personally. #enneagram

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  • Amanda Tietjen
    • Amanda Tietjen
    • February 28, 2019 at 1:19 pm

    Hello, I just started listening to your podcast and really love it. I am working on my masters in marriage and family therapy and am an INFJ-T. Could you tell me more about what makes the INFJ-T unusual and how I can use this insight to help others? I really appreciate being able to listen to conversations that I can relate to and will keep listening for great insight from your podcast. Also I really loved hearing Dr. Chestnut talk about her experience and how she has used her personality type to help her in her own practice. It really helped to inspire me.
    Thank you,
    Amanda Tietjen

  • Patti
    • Patti
    • February 26, 2019 at 8:39 pm

    Fantastic Podcast! I took 3 pages of notes. I am a Three and just recently uncovered that I relate most to being a self- preservation 3. MIND BLOWING work. I fit a lot of the typical 3 profile but I don’t see myself as “success” oriented or the upfront person (even though I have and can be) I recently realized I have a fixation with money and wealth (or the lack of) and I didn’t think that was inline with the 3 description until I looked into the self preservation side. I love the enneagram and am considering coaching others as I continue to grow.

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