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In this episode, Joel and Antonia walk through the tension between personal responsibility and external burden as it relates to our personality.

In this podcast you’ll find:

  • Why is the pandemic so anxiety producing?
  • How can we mitigate the effects of anxiety?
  • How this affects our perceiving function more than our decision making one.
  • Looking at the pandemic through a systems thinking lens.
  • Some perspectives from Joel and Antonia as Exploration (Ne) users.
  • How do maps and models provide a helpful lens?
  • The concept of “black-box thinking”
  • Looking at the pandemic and the world’s reaction through The Tribal Leadership Model – find out previous podcast on Dave Logan’s model
    • A view of tribal levels 3 and 4 – and how current events could move us up to level 4
  • Thoughts around sustainability, reliance and being community focused, combined with globalization as ways of working through the pandemic.
  • Why cord cutting from society’s collective anxiety might help highly sensitive people (HSPs)
  • How have we built our lives to be reliant on systems?
    • The effect this has on our self esteem
    • What is our level of dependency and how can we become more interdependent?
    • What skills and knowledge can we learn?
  • A look at our current cycle and timeline, according to the Generational Theory model presented in The Fourth Turning: An American Prophecy – What the Cycles of History Tell Us About America’s Next Rendezvous with Destiny by William Strauss
  • How can models help us organise the world and make good decisions?
  • The safety and security level of Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs – and how this relates to the pandemic
  • The importance of healthy routines and taking care of yourself

In this episode Joel and Antonia talk about ways to keep calm in the midst of chaos. #coronavirus #covid19

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  • Ty
    • Ty
    • March 20, 2020 at 10:32 pm

    First of all, I don’t think you’re evil to ask those kinds of questions. Fi/Te is a dichotomy for a reason- we NEED that balance. Furthermore, in the present world, I think it’s kind of brave to admit that you’ve got that tension inside of you.

    Let me throw in a perspective that eases that tension for me. This pandemic proves that our society- as it is currently set up- is not sustainable. We could collectively hold our breaths and let 8-15% of the elderly die and then go back to life as normal. But then what? What about when the next pandemic comes? And it will. That one may not target the elderly. That one may be way more deadly, may move quicker, or may wipe out our youngest generations.

    I think based on factors like over-population, our ability to easily move all around the planet now, and the rate at which viruses can evolve vs. the rate at which we can counter them- there’s a good chance we could see another, much worse, pandemic within the next 100 years. These are real systemic issues that will not go away, and we might as well address them now, because the next pandemic might not be so forgiving as this one is.

    So, in my mind, this response is encouraging. We’re still willing as a species to make changes, we’re willing to try something different, to temporarily pull apart and rebuild our systems into better lemonade makers when reality is flooding us with lemons.

    We cannot keep doing what we’ve already been doing and expect this to be solved in any kind of real way. It will simply come up again. If we have to adapt either way within the near future, we might as well do it now and try to save some lives in the process.

  • Izzy
    • Izzy
    • March 20, 2020 at 10:06 pm

    Being a SP lead, I’ve been preparing for this for years?

    I make all my own cleaning/body products, I have months worth of dehydrated fruits and vegetables so I have snacks to last us for a year or so, a cupboard full of cut up baby grows and clothes that I use as cloths to clean and wash the dishes so I’m totally fine if the toilet paper situation gets much worse.
    Doing and making these things wasn’t necessarily for an incoming apocalypse but for environmental and financial purposes…. also just making things and providing for myself makes me happy.

    I live in a fairly small town in the south west of England that is pretty community oriented.
    Restaurants and cafes have closed but the majority of them are offering a delivery service (too rural for Uber here). The supermarkets remain open but are running quite low on supplies, as well as no toilet paper I have been unable to get nappies so I am trying to use quarantine productivity and currently undertaking potty training (not myself obviously).

    The schools officially closed today. People that run yoga/dance classes etc have moved them online so that they can still run the classes for their clients. People are doing shopping runs for the elderly and vulnerable members of the community.

    As it’s pretty rural, there are plenty of places for us to going walking in nature.
    For now we are doing ok, I take one day at a time and try not to overthink how things are going to turn out, at least until I get used to our new routine.

    If you’re going to advocate for people to use the PH book for toilet paper, I suggest you offer complimentary butt cream with sales or you could face law suits…. that sounds painful?

    Sending good vibes to the both of you too!

  • Antonia Dodge
    • Antonia Dodge
    • March 18, 2020 at 8:13 pm

    I get it! At one point in the podcast when we talk about people hoarding TP and other things I say, “Those people are dicks” cause I totally agree with you. :D


  • Antonia Dodge
    • Antonia Dodge
    • March 18, 2020 at 1:36 pm

    I’m surprised that was the message we conveyed, as it certainly wasn’t our intent our outlook.

    Quite honestly, I don’t think I even could be fully self-sufficient in the way you’re articulating without years of skill development (nor do I think most of us could be). Neither Joel or I is self-pres first (he’s sp repressed, I’m sp second), so this is more of a “hey, maybe we should at least acknowledge how dependent we are on these systems and take stock of the situation” rather than a call for all out Mad Max panic. Which would not be ‘keeping calm’. :p


  • Erik Bland
    • Erik Bland
    • March 18, 2020 at 7:14 pm

    Sorry, I didn’t intend to sound negative!

    When I heard you guys promoting self-sufficiency, I think I imagined people using it as an excuse to hoard resources, or take other isolationist or highly selfish actions. That said, I know you also encouraged people not to do that at the start of the podcast.

    I certainly agree with the overall message of becoming aware of our dependencies, addressing them (as much as is reasonable), and minimizing panic.


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