Diving Deeper Into Judger vs Perceiver | Podcast 0442

23 comments

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  • Antonia Dodge
  • July 6, 2022 at 12:00 am

  Think of the four letter code as a decoder ring to find the functions. If you see them mostly that way, it becomes easier to understand why a consistent formula would be used (even if it’s a little complicated and has some seeming inconsistency).

  An attempt to ‘fix’ the challenge you mentioned about was made in Socionics. They designate the J and P based on the dominant function for the reasons you mention. They add a capital J and P for Extravert types, and a little j and p for Introvert types. So, if you’re an Extraverted type you will remain consistent between both systems, but an Introvert will be the opposite J/P from Myers-Briggs. For example, an ESTP in Socionics and Myers-Briggs are the same (both using Se and Ti). But an ISTp in Socionics would be an ISTJ in Myers-Briggs (both using Si and Te). And an ISTj in Socionics would be an ISTP in Myers-Briggs (both using Ti and Se).

  Some people think it helps to designate by the dominant function, but I honestly do not believe it adds clarity. It adds another layer of complexity to remembering the formula. For me, I think “all Judgers extravert their judging function, and all Perceivers extravert their perceiving function regardless of dominant/auxiliary preference” was much simpler to figure out than “All dominant judging types that are Extraverts have a capital J, all dominant perceiving types that are Extraverts have a capital P, but all dominant judging types that are introverts have a lower case j and all dominant perceiving types have a lower case p because they act like the reverse J/P designation in the outer world.” But that’s just a personal preference.

  Ultimately, it’s a code that carries a lot of information, and so it’s hard to make that more elegant than it already is.

  A

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  • Ryan INFP
  • July 8, 2022 at 5:18 pm

  For what its worth you sound like an INFP.

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  • Antonia Dodge
  • July 5, 2022 at 11:48 pm

  Catastrophizing is one of the ways Ne ‘grips’ an ISxJs, but definitely not the only way ISxJs experience their inferior.

  I think we’ve discussed before how ISxJs will do exactly what you’re describing – “Ne” or pattern recognize a situation they’ve already experienced to dig more understanding out of it (which is why Si/Ne can sometimes look like Ni), and even (as you so wonderfully described) “play” with a scenario built upon markers of familiar territory. And while integrating inferior Ne should be done in the real world, there is a lot of benefit for ISxJs “Ne’ing” inside of themselves.

  My apologies if we’ve made it sound like Ne is only used as grip for ISxJs. I’ll be sure to be more clear about that in future episodes.

  A

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  • Luke
  • July 8, 2022 at 2:25 pm

  I have a question I’ve been trying to ponder about my type. I’ve always tested as an INFJ, and I relate to the functions. Although, I feel like a bad Fe user compared to others I’ve observed. I’ve never tested as INFP except on one specific test by Personality Junkie. This test definitely defines me as a P type based on behaviors of openness, going with the flow, adaptable, and not outwardly sharing judgements/opinions. I relate to that and have been told that’s true of me since I’m quiet and keep a lot to myself only showing happy, positive “I’ll go with u” on whatever decision. What confuses me is why no other test reports that. I don’t identify as spontaneous at all. I like routine and familiarity. I’m not one to go out and explore which is why I’ve never related to INFP cognitive functions. I don’t relate to Fi at all either. I’ve only ever related to Fi description by Personality Junkie that talks about limited affection in plants, animals, or specific people and less likely to want to create outward harmony. As a mental health therapist, I prefer one on one sessions. I have to hold groups as part of my job, and clients always like me for being laid back and letting them take the lead and decide. I prefer not to direct or control others or even tell them what to do.

  I say all of this as a way of asking for help in finding clarification. Would this be a good 10 minute type question? Are there any resources that could help?

  Maybe other nods in the system like enneagram 9 sexual subtype and history or social anxiety and depression influence my behaviors. I grew up with dominant xSFJ parents where that agenda was pushed. I also don’t find it easy to get in touch with my own opinions of emotions. I can tell you what someone else is feeling before my own.

  Thanks,

  Luke

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  • Justine G
  • July 5, 2022 at 11:17 pm

  Thanks Joel & Antonia,

  I do have a point to make about ‘wandering around’ in Si (Memory) space. My belief is that using this function does not just involve ‘straight-up’ remembering and reflecting thereof, I think it can also involve conjuring up and playing around with hypothetical-scenarios, based on things directly experienced that followed a similar pattern. This could be an attempt to do Ne (exploration) in Si (Memory) space.

  I think in short that it would be a discredit to Si to frame it as if it were an ‘unimaginative’ function. You could argue that what I have described above is a ‘bad’ use of Si-Ne and you are actually supposed to go out there ‘disrupting’ a load of patterns in the outer world, and observe the results, rather than just sit around imagining what could happen. I’m sure there’s an element of truth to this, but actually it’s about getting the balance right between the two, especially as it is hugely impractical and destructive to just go around disrupting everything you want without care for the consequences, not to mention the extreme difficulty of getting yourself into every situation you care to be in!

  I know you’ve mentioned ‘catastrophizing’ as a low-end use of Si-Ne for ISJs, so you must already realise that Si-Ne can be used for imagining scenarios. However, I’m unclear why ISJs are only acknowledged as using their imaginations in a ‘negative’ way.

  Sorry if this is all a bit ‘off-piste’, it’s just been bugging me for a while now.