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In this episode Joel and Antonia talk about the dangers of Schadenfreude (pleasure derived from another person’s misfortune) and apply it to the recent Ashley Madison scandal.
In this podcast on Schadenfreude you’ll find:
- Schadenfreude – taking pleasure in another person’s suffering.
- People don’t realize it, but there’s a lot of Schadenfreude going on in society. They don’t see it as Schadenfreude but as Karma or Justice.
- Cruelty is never right nor is taking pleasure in cruel twists of fate. What we should be focusing is how we can prevent the incident from happening again.
- We understand the feeling of helplessness and we can feel that way sometimes.
- As it turns out, it can be a sure way to make us feel better or regain power about ourselves. It’s a self-affirming/self-empowering boost.
- When people feel disempowered, they want each individual person to pay for it. They want to reclaim power by seeing other people be put in their situation. While this may temporarily work, it doesn’t do anything to solve the problem.
- When we assume that the person who’s offending us should actually suffer (the idea that somebody should suffer because they’ve hurt our ethical principles), it doesn’t solve anything. It just keeps everything in the shadows.
- What problem are we trying to solve? It’s the feeling of powerlessness. By doing Schadenfreude, you are solving your own problem. You may think your problem has been solved but it’s only short term.
- The emotion of righteous indignation exists for a reason. We feel indignant when things are truly offensive to us and our feeling of righteousness propels us from doing something about it.
- Righteous indignation may make us feel powerful, but it’s not real empowerment.
- The human race is constantly evolving and we need to deal the issues that we’ve been keeping in the dark for so long.
- As we enter the space where we’re going to deal with all these stuff hidden in the shadows, how are we going to deal with them?
- You can’t control what’s going to happen in your life but you can control how you think, feel and respond to it.
- Working on ourselves is the solution. It would require more of us in order to calm down and deal with all the issues. Ask yourself, what is the mature, empowered action/response I can bring to this?
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24 comments
This podcast was excellent in so many ways. I’ve had this thought for many years, but never really expressed it formally, and any attempt to resulted in pretty judgmental and condemnatory responses. Although I like the word “schadenfreude”, what it represents is a little alarming. I remember going to school the morning after Osama bin Laden was killed, and although I in no way approved of what he did in his lifetime, the amount of joy expressed by fellow students and friends alarmed me. There was no questioning the loss of a human life, no sympathy, nothing. It wasn’t that they were relieved or thought justice was done that bothered me, it was the way people smiled and cheered and rejoiced which let me feeling uneasy.
As you said, I think we’d all be better off if we were more willing to empathize, even with people we disagree with. Everyone is on their own journey, with their own struggles, and circumstances that shaped who they are. I think I’m going to make this the topic of my own recording.
I hope more people come to think of these issues and the dangers of self-righteous judgment. Thank you for this podcast. :)
Thank you Barbara for sharing your feedback. I too have seen this with animals. A friend of mine used to hitchhike around the country with his dog.
He said people tried to steal his dog from him in outrage because they assumed (since he looked homeless from days on the road) that the wasn’t caring for his pet. Had the cops called on him multiple times for “animal cruelty.”
I think people truly are looking for ANY way to feel empowered in their lives. And they don’t stop to see what’s actually going on.
Thanks again for being a part of the Personality Hacker community.
Thanks Dan for the feedback and link :-)
A very important topic! Thank you for this discussion. The example that comes to my mind is when there is a perceived instance of animal mistreatment. For example, a dog left outside in a snowstorm. The level of vitriol expressed in people’s comments is unbelievable. But I think you all have explained it by discussing people’s feelings of powerlessness. That makes a lot of sense. A lot to think about, to apply to self, too. (Btw, my dog LIKES snowstorms!)
Excellent topic guys. I also really appreciate the above comments as well.
This is a subject I’ve been thinking and reading about quite a bit lately. Yes, it can be extremely difficult to set aside our emotions (perhaps even impossible for some) and have a rational discussion about this but I think it’s critical that we as a society do so.
My personal opinion is that mindless vindictiveness is actually an evolved trait that served us in our past. E.G. My clan of primates occupies one end of a valley and your clan has the other end. You do some perceived wrong to my clan so I gather up my guys, come to your area while you’re sleeping, and murder every one of you. Guess whose genes now own the valley and whose have been kicked out of the pool.
It’s not serving us anymore though. If we look at issues such as pederasty on a systemic level I think it becomes clear that this approach is actually contributing to the problem. You guys talked about this some in the podcast. Remember, most pedophiles and pederasts were themselves victims as children. So, in our righteous insistence on loudly condemning anyone who has these types of desires as well as demanding punitive (vindictive) justice for those who act on it, we are ensuring that none of these people are getting any kind of help to combat their desires. In turn, some of them will continue to act on said desires, victimizing children who will then grow up to be adults who have a higher likelihood of becoming predators.
In short, the inability to set aside our emotional reaction to this is a SIGNIFICANT node in a system that produces child victimization.
Stacy – you touched on recognizing the mental illness behind cheaters, sex offenders, etc. Very good point that I don’t think enough people realize. There’s a really good, short essay by Abigail Marsh (Associate Professor of Psychology at Georgetown University) where she talks about this very thing. Her statement is that we need to stop seeing a distinction between antisocial behavior and mental illness. All antisocial behavior is mental illness with the only difference being that it is externally expressed as apposed to internally. She has some other good points in there as well. If you’re interested in reading it, the essay can be found in the book, “This Idea Must Die.” Also, thanks very much for sharing your experience. All I can say about it is, “Wow.”
One last thing I would like to say about Schadenfraude: The opposite of it is powerful, beautiful, and inspiring. Here is an article from my favorite website that has some awesome examples of this:
http://www.cracked.com/article_22710_5-sworn-enemies-who-formed-inspiring-friendships.html
Warning #1: Some adult language in this article
Warning #2: Onion wielding ninjas may sneak up behind you while reading this. I know, it happened to me.