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In this episode Joel and Antonia talk about the dangers of Schadenfreude (pleasure derived from another person’s misfortune) and apply it to the recent Ashley Madison scandal.
In this podcast on Schadenfreude you’ll find:
- Schadenfreude – taking pleasure in another person’s suffering.
- People don’t realize it, but there’s a lot of Schadenfreude going on in society. They don’t see it as Schadenfreude but as Karma or Justice.
- Cruelty is never right nor is taking pleasure in cruel twists of fate. What we should be focusing is how we can prevent the incident from happening again.
- We understand the feeling of helplessness and we can feel that way sometimes.
- As it turns out, it can be a sure way to make us feel better or regain power about ourselves. It’s a self-affirming/self-empowering boost.
- When people feel disempowered, they want each individual person to pay for it. They want to reclaim power by seeing other people be put in their situation. While this may temporarily work, it doesn’t do anything to solve the problem.
- When we assume that the person who’s offending us should actually suffer (the idea that somebody should suffer because they’ve hurt our ethical principles), it doesn’t solve anything. It just keeps everything in the shadows.
- What problem are we trying to solve? It’s the feeling of powerlessness. By doing Schadenfreude, you are solving your own problem. You may think your problem has been solved but it’s only short term.
- The emotion of righteous indignation exists for a reason. We feel indignant when things are truly offensive to us and our feeling of righteousness propels us from doing something about it.
- Righteous indignation may make us feel powerful, but it’s not real empowerment.
- The human race is constantly evolving and we need to deal the issues that we’ve been keeping in the dark for so long.
- As we enter the space where we’re going to deal with all these stuff hidden in the shadows, how are we going to deal with them?
- You can’t control what’s going to happen in your life but you can control how you think, feel and respond to it.
- Working on ourselves is the solution. It would require more of us in order to calm down and deal with all the issues. Ask yourself, what is the mature, empowered action/response I can bring to this?
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24 comments
Thanks for your comment, Stacy! You make some very interesting observations. To quote you: “Every human being needs to realize that we are a combination of experiences and education with neurological variances that impact our perception.” I really liked this point as it is something I try to remember before judging others. I think it is easy to assume everyone has the same way of looking at things as we do. But people have different values and priorities and formative backgrounds. If we can remind ourselves of that we may not be so condemnatory. I don’t know if you have ever read “Mindhunter” by John Douglas, but he talks about the minds of serial killers and how many of them had absolutely horrific childhoods. I often wonder how much more damaged I would be if I had an unstable mind and came from an unstable family.
I also appreciated this point: “People who cheat, do not have good communication skills to ask for their needs or express them.” That seems a little too simplified on the surface, but when you really consider the various excuses one has/uses for cheating, a lack of communication skills could be at the heart of all of it…whether its their inability to communicate or their partners.
Thanks again for observations!
Felix O’ Murchadha in “Violence, Victims, Justifications & Philosophical Approaches” states it very clearly: Victimization not only shatters one’s fundamental assumptions about the world and one’s safety in it, but also severs the sustaining connection between self and the rest of humanity. Victim’s of human inflicted trauma are reduced to mere objects by their tormentors: their subjectivity is rendered useless —and viewed as worthless". In order for a trauma survivor to recover, the survivor needs to be able to control the environment (within reasonable limits)and reconnect with humanity. That can only happen with reality based skill building and total empathy.If self is created and sustained by others, it can also be destroyed by others. No person should be summed up into 1 encounter, one word, one label. No one should be labeled and rejected, voice silenced because of one acronym—-from victim to offender. READ: “Unfair the New Science of Criminal Injustice” by Adam Benforado. After 20 plus years of immersion in the criminal justice system as an Independent Advocate Victim/Witness/Community and Offender, it comes down to seeing people as people. Every human being needs to realize that we are a combination of experiences and education with neurological variances that impact our perception. People with mental illnesses, like all human beings cannot see themselves (behavior). To experiment as to what it is like for a human being who is a sociopath or psychopath: if you saw a beautiful glass and acquired it, when you hold it in your hand and rub your finger across it, you are focused on the glass, it’s beauty and the pleasure it gives you. Is the glass feeling pain? Does the glass object to you owning it? Silly you say, a glass isn’t a person. They are two different things. However, it does come down to perception and connection. If you do not have a neurological connection to the glass, you imagine what the other person is feeling and look for clues. What if your neurological system is broken or operates differently and the only thing you know about feelings is your own. Sexual imprinting is a habit loop the brain craves to reproduce pleasure. If you smoke and quit, or eat a twinkie every day, or take a pill, that is a habit loop your body depends on. Breaking the cycle is a complex problem. What do you get from the habit? What can you replace the habit with? I worked sex offenses for five years. Sex offenders are victims, not always of sexual abuse but human rights violations (objectified in other ways). If we look at all people as surviving the now, establishes habits or behaviors that each individual justifies. In a society that operates on acceptance and rejection, what do people do when they are rejected? We adapt and change behaviors for human connection. What if you are not concerned with connecting, but instead see acceptance as a way of controlling your behavior in order to “shop” in the world for your needs? Yes I have worked with offenders face to face. Yes I have been victimized. Yes I have had a child kidnapped, and broken because a neighbor mentioned to a predator what I do for a living. When these things happen, what do you do? With all my training and insight, I loaded my gun and I aimed it at the predator and said “right now there is a battle between my mind and my heart, you have 10 seconds, I suggest you run. Did I kill him?, no. I pressed charges, went to every parole hearing, and check on him frequently more than 20 years later. When people ask me why I do what I do: I can’t forget the picture in my head of my four year old sitting on the bed next to a 6’4” officer giving a statement. It is important that we all educate ourselves on human behaviors and the atrocities we are capable of committing to each other. Monsters, no, just a broken person who has no boundaries or understanding of the harm or injury they are causing in a drive to get needs met. People who cheat, do not have good communication skills to ask for their needs or express them. They are also empathetically deficient. Instead they assume their needs are going to be rejected or have been and justify their actions. Now they have a new habit loop. Most of us live on assumption, justification and judgement. Changing those behaviors can be hard, but necessary. Carrying revenge through your life will destroy you. However, that doesn’t mean you will forget, or that you will let your guard down again without some work. I understand how hard it is in the general public to not understand predatory and harmful behavior. I wish that those in the “know”, would educate those that are not. The bottom line is we cannot see intent, skill building and boundaries will red flag behaviors any individual should pay attention to. Great podcast. PS. The dog eating your face off if you take drugs. A child will remember that and probably have nightmares when at age 10 knows a prescription is drugs, medicine are drugs, the dog is going to get me.
I really want to thank you for sharing your experience, Theresa. I was admittedly nervous that we could come across unsympathetic to people who have been at the receiving end of this kind of abuse. I’m so glad it didn’t trigger you that way, and in fact your wisdom on the subject resonates with the ultimate message.
We’re very grateful to have you in our community. :)
A
Theresa,
Thank you for sharing some very personal things here. I can’t even imagine having to go through your experience. I truly appreciate your willingness to respond here in the midst of what I can only imagine would be strong emotions coming up for you.
The world needs more people like you.
#gratitude
Joel
I just finished this podcast and it is so very good. The point that people who wish harm on others are dealing with their own emotions on a subject and can’t show up to be part of the solution is so true.
Another good word, thank you.