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In this episode, Joel and Antonia have a free-form conversation about how they each approach conversation differently.
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22 comments
As an ENTJ, I think of conversation as imparting information, advice, etc., not as entertainment. Rambling conversation is not that entertaining to me, and what everyone in a group would find entertaining at the same moment seems doubtful to me to find easily. I like it when parties break up into small groups for “real conversation”. I gave a party once where a guest (a real estate agent) moved all the chairs in my house into one room and made a circle for everyone. He could not stand that he was missing out on the separate conversations. So the rest of the afternoon was about sports, real estate, taxes, etc., too me really boring! I have learned from introverts close to me that they like to listen, AND they like the extroverts to be quiet once and a while so the introverts can process what’s been happening and think about what they want to say. I know as an extrovert I really don’t give them much time or room. I have also stopped asking so many questions. People have plenty to say without being interrogated. If speed is so important to an extrovert (and everything being interesting every minute), maybe they should leave the group for a while and let it get on conversationally at its own speed. Recent research shows that extroverts think they run a meeting best, but it turns out they don’t — they shut others down. These are all things I am working on. Relationships need “quality time” and that is often quiet and not necessarily content-rich. When I first heard about “quality time” in an intimate relationship, I thought it was mis-named, because it sounded to me like the opposite of “quality” and more like just putting in some hours every week to be together — which it is — but still very important to be in each other’s energy field in a relaxing way with not so serious conversation some of the time.
My conversation style was like Antonia 5 years ago(I’m also a sx subtype), I’m easily bored with small talk so I direct it in conversations about gender, feminism, psychopathy, intelligence, smoking habits etc I was a palm reader at high school so I used that too as a conversation tool so they could vent to me about their daily problem while me using my Ni dom pieced intuitive patterns to guess about their life (I was pretty good lol). Recently I got through depression so I lost the vigor I once have, so I’m very quiet now and rehearsing myself to do typical small talks. I wish to go back to how I was, but it has been quite difficult
I’m not sure what I am. I’m an ENTP and I do share the sentiment of Antonia in a group conversation. However, I sometimes channel it into entertaining the whole group. Actually now that I think of it, I go up to a group of people I’m not comfortable with and basically start up stand up comedy to get the whole group paying attention to what I am saying. Once it’s done it’s job, I tell them what I wanted to tell them. I have been known to bulldoze people and groups to get what I want. But I can also be a very passive group conversationalist but I really don’t prefer that.
I would really love to hear more as well on how to fine tune and develop conversational skills based on type, as well as perhaps common faults or mistakes made by each type. I was really excited about this episode because this is such a fascinating subject to me.
I dont completely identify with a single personality type yet. So far, I identify equally with INFJ and INTJ. Im working on a chart. I’m sure that’s weird and there’s just a big piece I’m missing, and it will be so obvious when I fill in that gap, but that’s where I’m at currently. So… I, like seemingly everything in my life, am split. On several levels. I even wrote out an entire chart of how I react to conversations with men, women, groups, individuals, friends, foes, people who have power over me, people I have power over, people I am or am not attracted to….it was a long list.
I felt like the biggest struggle for me was trying to figure out how my brain is wired based on my abilities to converse with individuals one on one vs my ability to converse with large groups (weather that be in a speech giving scenario or a large party of people scenario) I learned a lot, and nothing. It told me nothing further to support one specific type or the other. But this is the jist of what I learned….
I can easily and comfortably, having confidant thoughts and actions as well as speaking fluidly and intelligently, talk to someone one on one. We can stay surfacey or go deep. As long as it’s healthy, it energized me!!! These positive experiences result I think, because usually I’m comfortable with that person. I may know them well, or I might be attracted or drawn to them attracted to them. Or I might be at work. I’m a sommelier and I wait tables and this professional yet personal exchange can be the easiest thing in the world for me.
But some days…I can’t do this. With the same people. And I havnt yet figured out if it’s the result of my energy or theirs. People arnt consistent. Sometimes they show up and they are, off. Or maybe I’m off. Either way the energy is distracting. I say stupid things, awkward things all the time! I’m nervous. I feel judged. I’m watching their eyes, lips, body for clues. I try to listen to not what they are saying but why they are saying it. Granted. I do this all the time but when the energies are off I put this on overdrive and its defensive. I notice my conversation skills deminish in response to my need to observe and infer. My conclusion was that given all the right circumstances a one on one deep and meaningful conversation can be the most energizing thing I experience all week. And a negative version of this is probably one of the things I hate more than anything else and is probably why I generally avoid deep conversations with anyone unless I truely trust them, weather that be in the moment with a stranger or my closest friend. A bad one on one can leave me feeling dead inside for weeks.
Conclusion, I am both a very strong and very poor one on one conversationalist.
Now groups. I avoid talking in groups. If it’s a positive party environment I usually observe mostly. And just take in the moments unfolding. I dislike getting distracted from this to partake in small talk but I can do it gladly if it’s a comfortable situation. I have also been very energized by these positive encounters.
However. If the group energy is off or disjointed or there’s drama or tension this is slightly less uncomfortable than the bad one on one encounters. I usually try to flee these situations and if it’s a family party for example where I can’t leave I have turned to alcohol to make me social. And then suddenly I can act like an extrovert and a sensor and no one things I’m secretly dying inside. I also have a very easy time addressing large crowds or teaching groups as long as I’m in a good frame up mind. This usually requires work beforehand. But I do enjoy this attention and respect. But will you ever see me take charge of my group of friends?? ??? no.
Conclusion, I am both a very strong and very poor In group conversationalist.
This all gets so complex and neuanced in my head and I’m still just trying to connect all the dots to make sense of how I’m wired. But I really enjoyed this podcast and am looking forward to more insights on this matter.
Either way. Thanks for being an awesome guide to help me find answers.
Then
(The following reply assumes the ‘he’ you’re referring to is Joel. If I misread your comment, my apologies.)
I can’t see anything that would paint Joel in this way other than his acknowledgment that he’s working through something that may be imbalanced (he called it an ‘overreach’ of responsibility). To exaggerate it into “codependent, controlling and insecure” appears to be weaponizing his transparency. It also ignores systems thinking. To say his behavior stems from a single thing (insecurity) and not to do with his personality (or the skill building and experiences from his life) is ignoring the principle of behavior being the emergent of an entire system running.
As a person who has observed him for nearly a decade, I think his behavior is neutral at its core and only ‘good’ or ‘bad’ depending upon context. That is, great in many contexts, neutral in some, and bad in very few. I’m similar – I acknowledged that my conversational style was controlling (the desire to go deep), which is also neutral depending upon context.
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