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In this episode, Joel and Antonia chat with Enneagram experts Dr. Beatrice Chestnut and Uranio Paes about the spiritual uses of the Enneagram.

In this podcast you’ll find:

  • Enneagram Workshop with Beatrice Chestnut and Oranio Paes
  • Mayton Inn
  • The Way of the Symbol
  • Using the Enneagram symbol to deal with traumas energetically trapped inside of us
  • The circle is important
  • In the workshop, you begin the exercise by standing on your Enneagram number which has been placed on the floor
  • The arrow lines go back and access early traumas then move forward to get a glimpse of the future.
  • Joel is a 6. So he stood on the symbol at #6 then went back to 9 to shore up inner power then brought back to 6 and over to 3, which is his future.
  • Everyone was there for different reasons. Some had trauma trapped in their body, and some wanted achievement.
  • Interview with Beatrice and Eranio:
    • Eranio was the first president of the Brazilian Enneagram Institute.
    • Beatrice is the author of our program Enneagram Roadmap as well as the author of The Complete Enneagram: 48 Paths to Greater Self-Knowledge
    • Eranio’s phrase: “Spiritual work without psychological work is dangerous. Psychological work without spiritual work is incomplete.”
    • We need to see psychological and spiritual development as the same thing.
    • Some people do spiritual bypass by looking for spiritual experiences without doing the hard work of touching wounds and traumas.
    • Other people get too involved with psychological development and try to find wound after wound without going through the transcendental path of healing, which involves spirit.
    • People need to shift to other forms of work, techniques, and therapists, or they risk getting caught in a comfort zone.
    • Vacuum in the heart.
    • When people get interested in Enneagram, they stop short of what they need to work on to face their core issues.
    • There’s no bypass.
    • If you’re doing the work, you must face your shadow.
    • Persephone’s world.
    • The Enneagram is a profoundly spiritual tool.
    • Access higher potential thru transcending the ego
    • If you look at the Enneagram symbol, you see a time machine.
    • If you follow the arrows back, you go back in time to your childhood
    • If you go with the arrow, you go to the future.
    • When we go against the arrow, we meet our child and can get in touch with our wounds or our soul.
    • The child was more in touch with the soul
    • Arrows against are called the “soul child point.”
    • Enneagram is a holistic system where we can explore past & future. Explore psychological wounds and get in touch with the spirit
    • If people experience it physically, it makes more sense.
    • Half an hour after doing the work, some people don’t even remember doing the work because it was so intense.
    • But their bodies remember.
    • We need to trust the body more. Our society is too dominated by the mind and too disconnected from the body.
    • There are three centers of intelligence: head, heart, and body.
    • We tend to rely on one center more than the other two.
    • Any human being using only one center is not a human being.
    • We need to use all three centers
  • Could there be something spiritual imbued in our work with Myers-Briggs?
  • Myers-Briggs is more of a psychological tool. There isn’t much spirituality to it.
  • We knew there was something incomplete in the Myers-Briggs system.
  • A lot of our community are transcending a faith background or changing their relationship with it.
  • Much of organized spirituality does miss the psychological piece.
  • Having a profoundly religious background doesn’t guarantee a spiritual connection.
  • Religion doesn’t equal spirituality.
  • Many people try desperately to find spirituality in organized religion, and they are left with a void.
  • How does each of us need to interact with the spiritual/sacred?
  • Nothing in our world is one-size-fits-all.
  • We have to follow this road, or there is going to be a big piece missing.
  • It puts our brains and our soul in a vice when we try to force ourselves into a spiritual mold that doesn’t fit.
  • The Enneagram is endlessly expandable.
  • Imagine the Enneagram symbol as a 3D sphere.
  • See numbers as stations of development as you go. Like Spiral Dynamics.
  • Let’s assume most of humanity is at station one.
  • Few people leave the first station of awareness.
  • The masses choose not to do the work.
  • Those who do the work can be the avatars for millions of others.
  • Growth will never be accessible to everyone. Not everyone chooses that path.
  • Be true to the message and let people interact with it in the way they will.
  • “The bigger the light, the bigger the shadow.”
  • The more growth work you do, the more you are stepping into the light/awareness, and you’re going to see some serious shit in your life.
  • There’s an opportunity cost that comes with growth. The opportunity to live a more mundane life.
  • There are benefits of living a templatized life.
  • “Don’t you wish you had taken the blue pill?”
  • The Enneagram symbol has shock points.
  • Those who do personal growth generate a resource that becomes available to the rest of the world.
  • Enneagram Instincts: Social, Sexual, Self-Preservation
    • Social: relationships, tribe
    • Self-preservation: protecting physicality. Safety
    • Sexual: survival strategies based on bonding
      • Instinctual sequence:
      • 1st: dominant,
      • 2nd: secondary,
      • 3rd: repressed
  • Repressed is different than a blind spot.
  • Repressed is something we don’t want to see. Like a beach ball, we keep pushing underwater.
    • Sexual repressed: The urge to merge. Merging with our subtle bodies, not just physical.
    • Self-preservation repressed: Be quiet with self. Find the sacred within. Work with basic life structures.
    • Social repressed: To be leaders. Reach out and do the thing they resist the most – to be seen.
  • The dominant instinct’s first work is to live it fully. Respect the animal.
  • Then stop the instinct from over functioning. Tame it.
  • The conceits of each type.
  • All the fears and concerns we struggle with are the things that our type does the best.
  • Beatrice/Eranio online resources
  • A lot of Carl Jung’s concepts were spiritual.
  • “Do you know why insights come at 1:30 in the morning? It’s when we are the least stubborn.”
  • Is there a spiritual aspect to Myers-Briggs?

In this episode, Joel and Antonia chat with Enneagram experts Dr. Beatrice Chestnut and Uranio Paes about the spiritual uses of the Enneagram. #myersbriggs #enneagram

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  • Jenn
    • Jenn
    • October 28, 2019 at 9:01 pm

    Oh my goodness, I have so many comments and ah ha’s regarding this particular podcast. First, I want to say thank you to you both.

    I’m a down the rabbit hole type of person and your podcast, for me, started with MBTI cognitive stacks. I came from Keirsey and it felt good to know that I was an ISFP but something was missing. Finding you guys, and the way you describe the stacks and dive into the personal growth of the functions has been game changing.

    Then you give me Beatrice Chestnut and the 27 sub-types. I’ve always typed as a Four and until listening to Beatrice i would role my eyes and ignore the Enneagram. Turn’s out I’m the counter type SP-4. Down another rabbit hole and I was very grateful again. The combo has really accelerated my understanding of me, my defenses and where I’ve been stuck. Not to mention my relationships.

    I will be re-listening to this podcast again with regard to the instincts, that’s definitely something I would like to explore, so cool beans.

    Antonia, with regard to your feelings on Woman’s retreats, I’m right there with you. I prefer the surgery model myself. Much more rewarding and interesting.

    Last thing, not completely unrelated to the podcast but I thought you guys might be interested. I google personality related stuff a lot so google sends me lots of links (most fluffy “how does your type date”). One stuck out though, there is a Singer/songwriter “sleeping at last” that wrote songs for the nine Enneagram types and also created a podcast telling how all the songs came together and describing each type. For me, it really brought a spiritual side to the whole thing. The songs are crazy good (I cried hard listening to mine and I felt this deep connection with my husband when I heard his -Sexual type 1), because they are so spot on. Thought I would throw it out there if you were curious.

    Anyway, like I said I will be listening to parts of this one again, and I will share it with some of my more “rabbit hole” explorer friends. Thanks.

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