Podcast – Episode 0344 – How To Shape Enneagram Conversations & Learning (with Dr. Beatrice Chestnut & Uranio Paes)

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In this episode, Joel and Antonia talk with Enneagram experts Dr. Beatrice & Uranio Paes about how we can best talk about personality types in a postmodern world.


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Showing 5 comments
  • guidance

    You really make it appear really easy together with your
    presentation but I in finding this topic to be actually one thing which I think I would by no means understand.
    It sort of feels too complex and extremely broad
    for me. I’m taking a look ahead on your subsequent submit, I’ll try to get the
    hold of it!

  • Erik Bland

    Thanks for sharing!

    I haven’t gone into the Enneagram system too much, so I don’t want to even try to comment on it for now. Instead, I noticed near the end of the podcast that as the discussion turned towards the methods of teaching personality typing (whether Enneagram, MBTI, or others) for personal growth, the topic of leadership came up.

    The concept of leadership in the future is really interesting, and I like Antonia’s discussion of the importance of self-leadership. I think one inevitable result of personal growth in civilization as a whole has been, and will continue to be, a reduction in the hard power and influence of individual leaders. But I don’t think this is a bad thing. Rather, as people become more and more developed, they don’t need as much external leadership.

    Of course, subject matter experts will still exist, and the need for experts won’t be going away. An example that was brought up was that of people self-diagnosing their health on the internet, and then insisting to doctors what treatment they should be given. I expect that a more self-developed person wouldn’t shun online diagnoses, but they might instead use their own research to communicate their own symptoms as clearly as possible to the doctor to help get the most accurate diagnosis possible. And this goes both ways as well – as leaders (or the doctor in this example) becomes more self-developed, he/she will better able to listen to the patient.

    In the future, I can see leadership roles becoming both more widely distributed and more fluid. Rather than one person being a leader, it could be that the leader of a group in any given time can fluctuate readily as the situation demands.

    Sorry, my comments here are off-topic, but I found that tangent in the discussion really interesting and wanted to share my thoughts.

  • Helen Thomas

    One of the deeper spiritual aspects of the enneagram is that of Holy (or I would prefer Divine) will. We think we choose to do things from our own free will but in truth, so the wisdom teachings go, everything happens from the deepest level of Divine Universal consciousness emerging, moment to moment. So looked at from this perspective, whether students stay superficial or dive deep with the enneagram, is really not of their choosing.

    A person will only encounter the teacher (enneagram wisdom in this case) when they are ready and will never go deeper than is right (from a Divine perspective) for them. I believe with all my heart that the Divine realm is constantly nudging us where we need to go. In my experience learning how to connect to this Divine level of consciousness is where true growth begins. I think for many of us, retreats are our first profound contact with our true self and this contact is so incredible it spurs us on to learn and develop any which way we can. I learned the Mbti after I had already gone deeply into the enneagram and learning from PH about my cognitive functions (INFJ) really helped me to dovetail the two systems for maximum growth.

    • Erik Bland

      That’s one of the interesting challenges I’ve been thinking about – if we want someone to pursue personal growth (or anything, really) and they aren’t interested, can we generate interest within them? And if so, how?

      I think this taps into the concept of free will as you mention, and if I interpret your comments here correctly, I agree with you. We don’t really get to choose whether we commit to an idea (like the Enneagram) deeply, superficially, or not at all. Either we’re drawn to it, or we aren’t. And the circumstances that change our motivations are hard to predict and aren’t really under our control.

  • Justine G

    Thanks Guys,

    On the subject of ‘mass produced’ ways of conveying the enneagram, I found the best I could say about my first enneagram book ‘the wisdom of the enneagram’ by Riso and Hudson, is that if I hadn’t read that, I wouldn’t have joined a typology forum where ‘Character and Neurosis’ by Naranjo was recommended (by another member). Not exactly a book aimed at a mass readership.

    I would credit ‘Character and Neurosis’ however as having helped me land on type 6, not because I thought the characterisations were any more ‘realistic’, if anything I thought they were more outlandish and exaggerated, but for me this ironically turned out to be their strength. Because it stopped me trying to think of them as representing ‘real’ people, and instead focus on the neurotic core that Naranjo vividly paints.

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