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In this episode, Joel and Antonia talk about the unique social challenges facing NT women personality types (INTJ – INTP – ENTP – ENTJ).
In this podcast you’ll find:
- The common thread between the INTJ, INTP, ENTP and ENTJ female types.
- Your double hit of being Intuitive and a Thinker as a woman.
- What are common challenges NT women deal with?
- Why are their challenges not talked about much?
- Why you are under-represented as an NT woman.
- What do you do when you don’t show up according to societal expectations?
- The overtime NT women put in trying to meet others where they are at.
- Why do NT women keep facing exhaustion and social failure?
- How much energy do you use trying to be more feminine?
- How being told “you’re the problem” affects NT women.
- Why is sisterhood so valued by you, yet often elusive?
- The blending mask that NT women wear.
- What happens when that mask comes off?
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The damaging strategy cycles NT women go through.
- The ENTP woman’s strategies to alleviate offense.
- Why an ENTJ woman diminishes her strong energy.
- The ego hits INTJ and INTP women take from fitting in.
- Why you feel so alone in your female NT challenges.
- How you feel unstoppable inside yet self-diminish socially.
- Why the NT woman’s cure is worse than the disease.
- Overidentifying with your wiring and the drama triangle.
- How do you navigate through your wounds?
- Becoming a bridge through your masculine and feminine energy.
- How you come off in your emotional and thought labor.
- How can camaraderie help you?
- Ways you can grow as an NT woman.
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Podcast - Episode 0352 - Building Self Esteem Regardless Of Type
Podcast - Episode 0354 - Social Challenges NT Women Face - Part 2 (INTJ - INTP - ENTP - ENTJ)
42 comments
INTP here (maybe INTJ, I don’t know) – I’ve listened to this podcast twice now and both times I have been so overwhelmed by how well you’ve described me that I’ve been in tears. From feeling totally out of place at women’s circles to having to completely restrain what I say because I know I’d be crucified if I tried to have a conversation about the things I deeply long to discuss. It is exhausting and frustrating and I have no idea how to go about making connections with the people who would accept me. I have always struggled with making friends, I never get that deep “soul sister” connection I keep getting told I have to have as a woman. The friends I do have, the conversations are not particularly deep and I have never had a BFF. (At school, the teachers were always saying I needed to make friends and “develop more self-confidence” to the point where I think I started to believe I had no confidence because they kept telling me I needed more of it. When, in fact, I probably had tonnnes of confidence to start with, I was just introverted . . . but that’s a whole other story, isn’t it?)
I am at the point now where most of the time I am clueless about whether something I want to say is okay to bring up in conversation or completely inappropriate. For me, I don’t see a problem, but I have none of those social niceties (emotional intelligence?) that stops me from saying completely inappropriate things, so because I honestly don’t know, I don’t say anything. I know there is a line but I have no clue where it is and I feel like there is something wrong with me. I remember once scoring so low on the EQ test that the facilitator had to take me aside and tell me I’d been a bit harsh on myself and not to be shocked when I saw the results. I wasn’t shocked, I know I don’t know this stuff. As a highly introverted person too, I try to avoid social situations, so perhaps reducing my opportunities to learn???
Sometimes, I hate it. I just wish I could find my “tribe”. But other times I am perfectly happy in my world of my own, my thoughts and ideas because quite truthfully I don’t want to waste my ideas on people who don’t get me, so if I can’t find those people, then the ideas will stay right where they are. (I think that kind of relates to what Antonia said about giving off the impression that we are “better” than other people – and yes, I am so good at putting myself down, just like you said, to make a connection with someone. )
Thank you so much for this podcast. To finally know that there are other people like me is a relief, even if it doesn’t change anything in my world, just knowing is a start.
Oh my goodness @Tine – this is EXACTLY how I feel (INTP woman here). I crave conversations like this but I don’t dare even bring any such subjects up because I would get completely crucified for exactly that reason – people would assume that by wanting to have the discussion, I actually want to do the thing, which, like you, I don’t. I was in tears during this part of the podcast because Antonia was describing me 100% and it makes me feel so alone that I have this deep need to engage in conversations that I can never have.
Hello, I am an ENTJ women and have struggled with the problems you discussed in both this podcast and the second part. I have never really had friends who were girls. I mostly become friends with guys or I spend time with my younger sisters friends who are girls. My sister is an ENTP and while she is an XNTX women she has learned to make friends and I find it a little fasinating. She does also struggle with saying things too bluntly, and her sense of humor is very dark which she also gets into trouble with. lol But I love having her as a sister she is my best friend.
My mother is an ENFJ and leads with harmony or Fe. That has been very hard for me since I am not the best at seeing the most harmonious option. Then she sometimes gets agitated with me. And I am also really good at ignoring my emotions. When I just want to stay active and avoid my emotions she notices and makes me think about how I am feeling. So there are definitely some good and bad things about that.
I’m INFP, and I related so much with this. When I was little I had girl friends, and we had an amazing relationship. But as I became an adult, it seems like I can’t anymore. I don’t have extroverted feeling, sometimes it’s like I just don’t understand why what I said or did was wrong, but they are always telling me how different and weird I am. Once a psychologist even told it was because I thought like a men, and it was so weird. I do feel feminine, though, but not in the way they want for my age and time. It’s so tiring trying to fit with them. I like thinking and sharing my thoughts and ideas, but I hate when it’s answered with an uncomfortable silence. I don’t know what they are thinking then. I don’t realize what’s that they’re feeling until they start attacking me. For example, once out of the blue started saying things like who needs learning another language it’s useless, and so they said how when they traveled abroad they didn’t needed it, at first it was like a sudden change of topic, but then, they started directly pointing out how I had never traveled abroad so how I would never know, and I felt a bit disoriented for a while until I realize that I previously commented about a history book I read in another language, and how I enjoyed learning about a very different perspective that the one we have here about that particularly part of time. They felt I was trying to look down at them because they didn’t know other languages. But that never occurred to me. I personally think we don’t need to know about everything, just the things we want to know about. What’s the point about learning about something we don’t like or feels useless? I haven’t traveled abroad because I don’t have the money for it, but I don’t feel bad about it. It’s just what it is, and some other things are more important right now. But telling them what I think and feel, well, I know it’s not the right thing at least I want them to hate me. So I know I need to say how lucky they are to visit such places, and talk more about it. I do care about their experiences in there, so I don’t feel bad about not telling what I think. But at the same time I can’t enjoy it the same, because I know I need to watch what I say from now on with them. You know, they can forgive me if I stop doing it. So usually it’s all about me making them feel good with themselves, because they’re similar and I am not. As an INFP, I look shy, at first glance, I also have a soft voice, and I like fairy kind of colors, like light pinks, purples, blue, greens and yellows. The way I look gives a very girly aura. Almost too girly. I prefer dresses to jeans, but the majority here now wears jeans or shorts, and heavier makeup. I look kind of fragile and innocent, always in my own fantasy world. I feel so anxious, when some of the boys tell them that they like this or that about me, once they turn to me and smile with that freezed expression I know they hating me again. Sometimes they feel better if they say I’m a dizzy person. So they assume I should never give my opinion or share my thoughts or ideas in a serious way, because it doesn’t go with my personality. Sometimes I think I could just choose one part of my personality so it would be easier but I can’t. That feels like betraying myself.
Wow, I feel like hiroshima right now, cause you were dropping some atomic size truth bombs ;-)
INTJ female here and I got every single thing in this podcast. It wasn’t too abstract at all. Then again, I’m an NT, so abstract is my thing.
I do think the episode could have benefitted from a more concrete example for those that are not as abstract in their reasoning or that don’t identify with these experiences at all. One that comes to mind is a conversation I once had with my INTJ brother about whether or not it would be a good idea to rid the world of dumb people (over time through genetic modification and selection, or some more radical way). I’m fully aware that simply making such a statement in “normal” groups of people, would be social suicide. However, with my brother, we could put aside the ethics and focus on fleshing out the consequences and practicalities of such an endeavor. It was so intellectually satisfying and very politically incorrect.
Sometimes I think feeler types automatically assume that just because I make such a statement and want to think about it, it means I actually want to do that. Spoiler alert: I DON’T. I just like the intellectual exercise. That’s the fulfilling part for me.
And I guess that’s also why we usually don’t get energized from socializing. It’s just not satisfying. Doesn’t charge our batteries in any way, so it exhausts us.