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In this episode, Joel and Antonia talk about the unique social challenges facing NT women personality types (INTJ – INTP – ENTP – ENTJ).
In this podcast you’ll find:
- The common thread between the INTJ, INTP, ENTP and ENTJ female types.
- Your double hit of being Intuitive and a Thinker as a woman.
- What are common challenges NT women deal with?
- Why are their challenges not talked about much?
- Why you are under-represented as an NT woman.
- What do you do when you don’t show up according to societal expectations?
- The overtime NT women put in trying to meet others where they are at.
- Why do NT women keep facing exhaustion and social failure?
- How much energy do you use trying to be more feminine?
- How being told “you’re the problem” affects NT women.
- Why is sisterhood so valued by you, yet often elusive?
- The blending mask that NT women wear.
- What happens when that mask comes off?
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The damaging strategy cycles NT women go through.
- The ENTP woman’s strategies to alleviate offense.
- Why an ENTJ woman diminishes her strong energy.
- The ego hits INTJ and INTP women take from fitting in.
- Why you feel so alone in your female NT challenges.
- How you feel unstoppable inside yet self-diminish socially.
- Why the NT woman’s cure is worse than the disease.
- Overidentifying with your wiring and the drama triangle.
- How do you navigate through your wounds?
- Becoming a bridge through your masculine and feminine energy.
- How you come off in your emotional and thought labor.
- How can camaraderie help you?
- Ways you can grow as an NT woman.
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42 comments
I really enjoyed the podcast and identified with a lot/most of what you were saying. I’ve been a teacher for a lot of my life and struggled intensely with the emotional side of teaching (individual lessons). I felt affinity with the subject I taught and had a lot of ideas but forming bonds with a majority of students who had entirely different needs from myself was literally a nightmare. Yes, overtime I guess I learned to some extent how to do it, but it’s such a massive task I just don’t believe anyone should have to go through that without specific tuition themselves in this issue. Thanks for the experience of sharing what it’s like to live without a framework for all of this.
Why do NT women make terrible victims?
As an entp woman, yes, I can get socially depleted, and yes, I have played down my intellect at times to fit in, and I’m not the esfj hostess, but I’m not sure I fit all of this or want to wear the label that feeling just isn’t my thing. My infp friend and I have great feeling-type conversations, and she appreciates my natural curiosity about her problems and desire to help her nt puzzle out her relationship issues. (She loves that I bring objectivity to her overly emotional reactions to people and I love how her deep empathy hits me the right way and helps me open up.) I’m a six with subtype social on the enneagram, so maybe this shifts things a bit, I’m not sure. (I’ve also considered that I am close to enfp, or spend a lot of time in extroverted feeling as an entp — not sure which, so maybe all of these shift the dynamic.) I also like that the intp women on here have gotten comfortable with showing curiosity towards others, and I do this — quietly listen and take in their problems, I actually like that…my friends say I have unique perspectives and insights on their problems, which makes me feel good.
I also want to say, my infp friend and I are sometimes taken aback my our esfj/enneagram type 3 female friend who can come off as the proverbial Avon lady — a cheerful smile but little real deeper emotional depth underneath. Very very nice person, and would never talk behind anyone’s back, but she isn’t someone either of us trust with deeper emotional baggage, but we trust each other very much in this realm. So even feeling type women can have trouble with other women when it comes to connecting, it isn’t necessarily nt women in particular. It’s probably a mid-life skill for us, but since we spend our youth gaining knowledge, for me, anyway, it’s kind of an ahhhh sometimes just to relate to others and not feel like I should be learning something new. I truly appreciate learning about others now, and like doing that one on one, especially.
Hi. ENTP here. I found a lot of interesting things in this podcast, a lot of interconnected problems and concepts. There is a lot of friction between how our natures are (as NT women according to typology) and what nurture expectation we have upon ourselves from society (what and how a woman should be). A major part of that reason I think is the there is not much emphasis by people to look at the nature component of people , understand their type and that of others and how they naturally see the world. Also as an NT woman the recurring problem I see occurring is “where to draw the line”. How much should i compromise my ne and ti , and how much should I try to let social norms help me meet my essential and basic needs that any woman has. I’m not trying to sound one worse than the other, but I want to have both and bridge the two. I’m still trying to figure out the ropes, and it’s really great that you addressed this and articulated it so well. Looking for more content on this topic !!
Thank you, Antonia, for this wonderful podcast! I related to much of what you said. When you find a friend circle with other NT women, it’s a gift. I have two local college sorority sisters who are fellow NTs (one an INTJ like me and the other a loud and fun ENTP). We tend to get together every couple of weeks ago and let down our defenses. We are 50. Maturity helps a lot with accepting yourself fully, too.
As an INTJ, I think very early in life (preteen probably) I decided there were some arenas I’d never be able to engage fully with feelers/women. Instead of being sad, I have always accepted it. As you said, I NEVER expected them to come to my side or bend to my preferences. I knew it was impossible for them. And I had a real sense of being in the minority and feeling it unfair to expect the majority to flex for my weirdness.
In fact, I tend to swing the other way, thinking feelers are kind of silly and exceptionally draining, thus not worth having a sense of missing out. It actually feels nice to excuse myself from that kind of engagement. (I guess I also tend towards contempt. Their conversations are shallow and ridiculous. Why would I want to be part of it? I’d rather do my own thing than delve into that shallow pool. That sounds incredibly arrogant… there I go censoring myself… ha ha.)
I’ve found that if I have just 1 or a few friends who mostly understand me and fully accept me, I don’t need larger social circles.
Anyway, the toughest part for me as an NT is being a mom. I have always thought that according to my own standards, I’m a damn good mom. But as per society’s standards, I am probably a really inferior mom because I don’t (and won’t) experience the sentimentality most moms do. I really bristle against all of that, feeling it’s just silly and not authentic to how I experience being a parent. Crying because they’re growing up? WHAT?! Why would I cry? I’m thrilled! Crying over graduation? What?! Why would I cry? I’m proud and excited. I just don’t approach motherhood with the same emotions. When my baby was born, the one thought screaming through my head was “What have I done? What have I done?!” I was terrified by the feeling of responsibility. The love didn’t come until later. And, of course, I was terrified I’d be a bad mom because I never felt any sense of love for my unborn child. The love came later, after getting to know her.
I also don’t consider being a mom my full identity or get as much validation from that role as my other roles in life. I love my child, of course. But I am more than a mom. And mom-ing is draining! I find it exhausting, especially since my daughter is an INFJ (so many feels… so many BIG feels). I’ve had to inform my (adult) daughter on numerous occasions that I simply cannot be for her in some ways she may need me. I simply don’t have the capacity. And I feel icky when I even try. She understands and has learned to value the benefits I bring to parenting as an INTJ.